Strange New Worlds season 2 - SPOILERS

[Paul Farquhar]

It probably happened in the same offscreen scene in which Khan ran into Chekov for the first time.

The auxiliary's to Chekov's Gun

Chekov had a gun? Why didn't he use it to shoot Khan?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

"Yes, we used to have a Chief Security Officer that was one of your descendants. Thankfully, she showed no sign of your illogical need for personal power..."

...so far.

The series is still young.

 

[Stalker0]

Perhaps Scotty will choose a champion. Sulu is good with a sword.

The entire premise for the trial is fatally flawed. I get that Khan and the others were mean and nasty dudes. They didn't have access to anywhere close to the level of technology the federation has. The federation has a much greater understanding of genetics and would know that the result doesn't have to be super aggressive people. Especially since they have an entire race of modified people who aren't trying to rule the universe. Additionally, Earth may be the capitol of the Federation, but they can't keep the others from voting however they wish, and this is an Earth issue.

Nothing about it makes sense.

Fear doesn't often make sense, that's basically the point.

The fear that arose (from an entire major war mind you), was that once you make genetic engineering commonplace you will start to see people abuse it, and eventually you will get the "master race" scenario all over again. Now some of that is an absolutely rational fear, and some of it completely primal and instinctual.

The other part that was actually a more interesting argument, is the notion that genetic engineering removes genetic variability from a species. Effectually once you start assuming certain traits as "good" and others as "bad", you start pruning and weeding. But the reality of nature is, survival of species is often dependent on genetic variation, because you never know what major change is around the evolutionary corner that suddenly makes that undesired trait really useful and important. So the idea that they want to prevent the genetic pruning of a species is actually a legitimate concern.

Now in terms of this as an "earth problem", I could agree with that, but frankly Earth is very centric in the federation, as is vulcan. As some of the two founding members, they obviously have a LOT of clout in the government, and so Earth policies and viewpoints tend to carry through more often than not. Major parts of the federation government are literally on Earth after all.

 

[Ryujin]

Fear doesn't often make sense, that's basically the point.

The fear that arose (from an entire major war mind you), was that once you make genetic engineering commonplace you will start to see people abuse it, and eventually you will get the "master race" scenario all over again. Now some of that is an absolutely rational fear, and some of it completely primal and instinctual.

The other part that was actually a more interesting argument, is the notion that genetic engineering removes genetic variability from a species. Effectually once you start assuming certain traits as "good" and others as "bad", you start pruning and weeding. But the reality of nature is, survival of species is often dependent on genetic variation, because you never know what major change is around the evolutionary corner that suddenly makes that undesired trait really useful and important. So the idea that they want to prevent the genetic pruning of a species is actually a legitimate concern.

Now in terms of this as an "earth problem", I could agree with that, but frankly Earth is very centric in the federation, as is vulcan. As some of the two founding members, they obviously have a LOT of clout in the government, and so Earth policies and viewpoints tend to carry through more often than not. Major parts of the federation government are literally on Earth after all.

Star Trek made humans the glue that keeps the Federation together. It's an undertone thread that runs though pretty much all of the various series. Babylon 5 came straight out and said it though.

 

[billd91]

Fear doesn't often make sense, that's basically the point.

The fear that arose (from an entire major war mind you), was that once you make genetic engineering commonplace you will start to see people abuse it, and eventually you will get the "master race" scenario all over again. Now some of that is an absolutely rational fear, and some of it completely primal and instinctual.

And even if, in a particular case, it did make sense, how well does that apply to other cases? That's part of the discriminatory nature of these sorts of things. The brush is far too broad.

Interestingly enough, would the ban on genetic engineering apply to genetic modification or therapy to ameliorate genetic disorders like trisomy 21, AKA Down Syndrome?

 

[Stalker0]

And even if, in a particular case, it did make sense, how well does that apply to other cases? That's part of the discriminatory nature of these sorts of things. The brush is far too broad.

Interestingly enough, would the ban on genetic engineering apply to genetic modification or therapy to ameliorate genetic disorders like trisomy 21, AKA Down Syndrome?

It prevented Geordi from getting his eyes fixed, so probably.

 

[MarkB]

Fear doesn't often make sense, that's basically the point.

The fear that arose (from an entire major war mind you), was that once you make genetic engineering commonplace you will start to see people abuse it, and eventually you will get the "master race" scenario all over again. Now some of that is an absolutely rational fear, and some of it completely primal and instinctual.

The other part that was actually a more interesting argument, is the notion that genetic engineering removes genetic variability from a species. Effectually once you start assuming certain traits as "good" and others as "bad", you start pruning and weeding. But the reality of nature is, survival of species is often dependent on genetic variation, because you never know what major change is around the evolutionary corner that suddenly makes that undesired trait really useful and important. So the idea that they want to prevent the genetic pruning of a species is actually a legitimate concern.

Now in terms of this as an "earth problem", I could agree with that, but frankly Earth is very centric in the federation, as is vulcan. As some of the two founding members, they obviously have a LOT of clout in the government, and so Earth policies and viewpoints tend to carry through more often than not. Major parts of the federation government are literally on Earth after all.

What I like about the Illyrians is that their use of genetic modification is actually in line with a lot of Federation ideals about not interfering too much in life on other worlds and being responsible in interacting with the worlds they colonise. The Illyrians adapt themselves to planetary environments so that these worlds can be colonised without the more high-impact forms of terraforming that would otherwise devastate native ecologies.

On the other hand, this does turn such worlds into effectively Illyrian-only colonies, barring any other Federation species that can live there, as Pike experienced. Still, by creating a variety of populations each adapted to different worlds, they'd actually be increasing the genetic diversity across the quadrant.

 

[Maxperson]

Fear doesn't often make sense, that's basically the point.

The fear that arose (from an entire major war mind you), was that once you make genetic engineering commonplace you will start to see people abuse it, and eventually you will get the "master race" scenario all over again. Now some of that is an absolutely rational fear, and some of it completely primal and instinctual.

It was a local skirmish in the cosmic scheme of things. The Federation is huge and the other races probably couldn't give two figs about a war hundreds of years earlier without the modern tech to detect it. All of the other members of the Federation aren't going to catch that irrational fear, which still doesn't make sense given the time since the war, and would likely not care if a member state wanted to modify itself.

The other part that was actually a more interesting argument, is the notion that genetic engineering removes genetic variability from a species. Effectually once you start assuming certain traits as "good" and others as "bad", you start pruning and weeding. But the reality of nature is, survival of species is often dependent on genetic variation, because you never know what major change is around the evolutionary corner that suddenly makes that undesired trait really useful and important. So the idea that they want to prevent the genetic pruning of a species is actually a legitimate concern.

Sure, but that only really matters to the world involved. If they want to prune themselves, what business is it of Earth? And if an individual human from Earth wanted to be modified or modify their kids, what business is it of the world at large?

Now in terms of this as an "earth problem", I could agree with that, but frankly Earth is very centric in the federation, as is vulcan. As some of the two founding members, they obviously have a LOT of clout in the government, and so Earth policies and viewpoints tend to carry through more often than not. Major parts of the federation government are literally on Earth after all.

There are 350 worlds in the Federation. I seriously doubt they're going to ostracize worlds just because Earth and maybe Vulcan want the law to remain. I got the sense that Vulcan only cares about the law as it exists, not that they share Earth's fear.

 

[Stalker0]

There are 350 worlds in the Federation. I seriously doubt they're going to ostracize worlds just because Earth and maybe Vulcan want the law to remain. I got the sense that Vulcan only cares about the law as it exists, not that they share Earth's fear.

And yet they do, that is the fact we have been presented with. Its 350 worlds, but its not 350 worlds with equal sway....clearly Earth throws a LOT of political weight around in the federation.

Heck look at Zephram Cochrane, he gets his name plastered on tons of stuff in Star Trek, even becoming a unit of measurement in warp drive....yet he only invented it for one species. But we humans again threw our weight around a lot in the early federation, and so a lot of what followed (for good or ill) was shaped by us.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

The adversarial system is based on the assumption that both sides will behave dishonestly in the pursuit of their desired outcome. Given that the best liars are the most expensive, it means that the outcome is determined by whoever has the most money. There is no room for justice.

If your society is able to do away with money, the adversarial system dies with it.

A system where one entity wants to deprive a given individual (or party) of liberty (or demand extraordinary actions, payments, etc. of them) is inherently adversarial for the defendant's part, absent a future of utterly selfless beings. The degree to which we officially tolerate adversarial behavior in the system is legislatable, but you can't legislate human nature, which makes any such process intrinsically adversarial. A system that denies that fact seems more likely to be problematic than one that embraces it. Not tolerating adversarial behavior in court proceedings has historically been more often tied to oppressing defendants in the name of "justice" than any sort of disinterested pursuit of truth, because when the intrinsically adversarial parties are the state and an individual, the apparati of justice operated by said state inherently favor the state.