Strange New Worlds season 2 - SPOILERS

No, they couldn't, because of existing canon. We know that the laws against genetic engineering remain in place and enforced right into the 24th century, so the only way that they can thoroughly resolve this case while leaving those laws largely unchallenged is to find either a technicality or a very specific exception that can resolve this one case without setting a wider precedent - and a technicality wouldn't have been dramatically satisfying.
You're profoundly missing the point. That's all entirely irrelevant - none of that requires the level of stupidity and ignorance of what a law even is here.

Also, the lawyer literally described their victory as a technicality. Which is of course nonsense that further proves that this was basically written by a 15-year-old.
It's not just sci-fi, it's each and every drama series that looks closely at any technical subject and then plays it for drama regardless of the actual technicalities. It grates horrendously on anyone with specialised knowledge of the subject without bothering most other viewers in the slightest.
Nah, that's a nonsensical and cheap cop-out.

I work in the law and computers, and shows vary wildly in how badly the portray both. At the one end you can have something like Bones, where laws don't apply, and computers are literally magic more powerful than Star Trek's holodeck, but at the other you might have Better Call Saul or Halt and Catch Fire, where most of the people getting mad about stuff are actually showing their own ignorance (Halt and Catch Fire particularly caused a whole bunch of nerds to show how little they knew about computing in the 1980s).

Obviously I don't expect Star Trek to be Better Call Saul.

But I do expect it to do better than utterly brainless trash like Bones.

And it didn't. It didn't even come close. I don't think even Bones, a show without a single brain cell, would have gone for a resolution as profoundly stupid as this.

I'm shocked because the rest of SNW has been up to "good TNG/DS9" standards, and this was way below that.
Cut them a break and let them get their stirring speeches and dramatic victory while airing some very valid representations of the nature of socially-enforced prejudice.
Maybe I could if the speeches were stirring, or the victory dramatic, or the representations of prejudice valid, but none of those things were the case here.

Here we saw a people who aggressively use genetically engineering on their children, when it isn't necessary, is against social norms, is against the law (for good reason), and who then proceed to lie about it, and we're expected to think this is saintly behaviour? No. It's despicable behaviour. As I said, the pro-genetic augmentation arguments here were creepy and ill-formed, and didn't even make any rational sense. They were the worst and nastiest kind of appeal to emotion - they tried to appropriate real-world stuff that's happened to people genuinely through no fault of their own, and apply it to people actually doing something naughty. Gross.

The speeches were pretty bad too. I think there was about once convincing one in the whole thing, and not from the lawyer.

There was also nothing dramatic about the victory, because it was simply magic, rather than some sort of legal ninjitsu, or profoundly compelling argument. It would literally have been better if she'd argued without using Federation law and just argued that they needed to make an exception, that could have been considerably more compelling.
A show would have to take really great pains to portray things realistically and then nobody would probably watch it.
Absolutely not.

You've seen shows manage this - and they don't have to go to great pains - they just avoid the issue. Don't go into detail about things you don't understand. This is a basic principle of writing. This episode was the result of arrogance from a bad writer, frankly.
 

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Actually, it does make a fair bit of sense, you're misremembering. I just checked Memory Alpha to see that I wasn't.

The situation Measure of a Man is of a fact-finding inquiry to work out what the law is, not a criminal trial (or even really a civil one), and as such is naturally more informal in nature. Nor does it pretend to be anything else. It's a bit irregular that Picard is put in charge of arguing the idea that Data is a sentient, free-willed being, but given this is, again, a fact-finding inquiry/legal hearing, not entirely out-of-line. It's actually closest to arbitration, I'd say.
The absurdity of the situation is staging a fact-finding inquiry into Data’s personhood several years after his graduation from Starfleet Academy and subsequent assignment to the Enterprise-D as a commissioned officer.

Did Starfleet hand out commissions to their equipment? Was there a Lieutenant Tricorder or Captain Computer (maybe if the M5 program worked out…)? The issue of Data’s status as a sentient being was confirmed in the premise of the series, where he is both an android and Starfleet officer.

If you think about it, ”Measure” is the story of the fragility of minority rights even in a near-utopia. Though you probably shouldn’t think of it like that. Gets in the way of enjoying the episode!
 

Oona pointing out that her counsel worked for the prosecution - I mean seriously
Um... my reading was simply that, as is typical for military courts, both counsels report to the Judge Advocates division (or whatever) of Starfleet. And while that is intrinsically problematic, they didn't want to make an episode about how her appointed attorney did their ethical duty to be a zealous defender within a hierarchical organization that, while generally respecting the role of their JAG officers in an adversarial process, maybe gets a little corrupt when those in power want a particular result, or anything else that really interrogated their military justice system. They just wanted to hand-waive her appointed attorney away and make an excuse for her to desperately need the one lawyer she has beef with.

Once again, I think as Star Trek legal drama goes it's phenomenal progress just to not make a primary cast member inexplicably serve as her lawyer, but at the end of the day I'm just not a fan of Star Trek legal drama, and ultimately it's always going to have enough preposterous stuff to take me out of the episode. And whether or not it all "makes sense" or whatever, if I spent my time watching a Star Trek episode critiquing their presentation of trial procedure, or whatever, than that episode was a failure with me.

The absurdity of the situation is staging a fact-finding inquiry into Data’s personhood several years after his graduation from Starfleet Academy and subsequent assignment to the Enterprise-D as a commissioned officer.
I mean I think there is premise that makes perfect sense alluded to by the episode, and that is that having learned how phenomenally handy it is to have a Data onboard, Starfleet now wants to backpedal on his personhood so that he can be disassembled and mass produced. Doesn't seem absurd at all.

Where the absurdity arises is that, in order for that episode to have a tie-everything-together-in-a-nice-bow-TNG resolution, personhood has to be treated like something that once recognized can never be unrecognized, otherwise they can only win an obviously temporary and fraught victory. And if such determinations are thus immutable then suddenly it has to be a "whoops, we never thought about it before" situation.
 

What I find surprising is that a near-utopia would still have an adversarial legal system at all. There are already plenty of legal systems that have got past that. Particularly once the Vulcans got involved. Surely the purpose of the law is to determine the truth? Taking sides is illogical.

But, world building aside, this episode was the first SNW episode my partner really liked. She has been slow to warm to this iteration of Star Trek, but she thought S2E2 was good.
 

Interesting - while Paramount+ UK and Ireland's Youtube channel didn't follow their US counterpart in providing the whole first season for free in advance of season 2 (I think they eventually made the first episode available), they have now put up Season 2 Episode 1 for free, so any UK and Ireland viewers can check it out.

 

What I find surprising is that a near-utopia would still have an adversarial legal system at all. There are already plenty of legal systems that have got past that.
What I find surprising is that anyone would think regressing to a legal system that operated under the inherently untruthful pretense of not being adversarial was utopic.

Which is all to say, that what an "advanced" legal system is is very much in the eye of the beholder, and that given that Star Trek has, to my knowledge, never been written by experts in (or people with particularly strong feelings on) comparative law but rather people whose legal education primarily consists of watching American television dramas, it is hardly surprising that Star Trek legal systems tend to look like various parts of the American legal system with the serial numbers filed off. The "utterly reject their own contemporary society's approach" energy has mostly been saved for religion and capitalism.
 

What I find surprising is that anyone would think regressing to a legal system that operated under the inherently untruthful pretense of not being adversarial was utopic.
The adversarial system is based on the assumption that both sides will behave dishonestly in the pursuit of their desired outcome. Given that the best liars are the most expensive, it means that the outcome is determined by whoever has the most money. There is no room for justice.

If your society is able to do away with money, the adversarial system dies with it.
 




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