Streaming Services: Power Rankings Summer 2023, and What's Up With Paramount+

[Parmandur]

It's not a prestige show- it doesn't get any awards.

Amazon doesn't do prestige. They are providing icing for people who want cheap shipping on toasters and plastic rocking horses.

It's not a show that gets buzz; as @payn correctly notes, there are more people that talked about Wheel of Time. Even just to hate on it.

Maybe where you talk.

It's not a show that drives engagement. You keep repeating the same point - but that is an absolutely abysmal retention number. Really really bad. As I stated before, 50% is considered the low-end of cromulent for series in general ....let alone a big-time show. If they hadn't invested this money, it would be canceled.

I don't think that's the metric Amazon cares about, not at this volume.

That's four times as much as House of the Dragon (which outperformed it in terms of total viewership and far outperformed it in terms of completion).

House of Drsgon did not match Ring of Power in the Nielsen ratings.

Cost matters. A lot.

Not to Amazon. Not as immediately as it does to traditional media vompanies, who tend towards short sightedness.

I'm not here to argue about Rings of Poeer on the artistic level: I'm just trying to get at what Amazon is up to as a business...and that seems to be a success for their side hustle.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I'm not here to argue about Rings of Poeer on the artistic level: I'm just trying to get at what Amazon is up to as a business...and that seems to be a success for their side hustle.

No. It isn't. Again, this has been a major topic in terms of the Business.

I don't know how many more times this has to be said. Prime is considered an also-ran, despite the high subscriber numbers, because of flops like this show. You might say, "Well, some people watched it. It can't be a flop!"

I don't think you fully comprehend what the ROI is. It cost $90 million an episode. For a point of comparison- do you know Foundation? The super expensive Apple+ show set in space? It cost $45 million - for the entire season.

That's right. Every single episode of this show (which had eight episodes) cost more than the entire budget of almost every show ever made. Every episode costs more than a season of the Witcher. More than a season of Wednesday. More than a season of The Boys. More than a season of Umbrella Academy. More than a season of Ozark.

In fact, every single episode of this show costs more than the entire series runs of most hit shows on other networks. When you are spending that kind of money, you need a lot better return. It's just not sustainable.

If you have any actual evidence of your assertion- that this type of spending on content is, in fact, not just some kind of new-fangled Underwear Gnome scheme, provide it. Because it's this type of spending on content that led to all the retrenchment we've been seeing this year, starting with Zaslav and continuing on with the strike(s) - which the studios haven't avoided because they will allow them to get out of some of the onerous content contract they signed.

Again, the repeated assertion that a show that is, by far, the most expensive show in the history of television is somehow a success for Prime despite the fairly well-known and well-reported evidence otherwise - and not in clickbait articles, but in the industry press, is somewhat ... odd. Perhaps Bezos and co. are playing 4-D Chess, or perhaps they overspent for subpar content. I'll put my money down on overspending, given that it seems to be part and parcel with the structural issues that Prime has had.

 

[payn]

No. It isn't. Again, this has been a major topic in terms of the Business.

I don't know how many more times this has to be said. Prime is considered an also-ran, despite the high subscriber numbers, because of flops like this show. You might say, "Well, some people watched it. It can't be a flop!"

I don't think you fully comprehend what the ROI is. It cost $90 million an episode. For a point of comparison- do you know Foundation? The super expensive Apple+ show set in space? It cost $45 million - for the entire season.

That's right. Every single episode of this show (which had eight episodes) cost more than the entire budget of almost every show ever made. Every episode costs more than a season of the Witcher. More than a season of Wednesday. More than a season of The Boys. More than a season of Umbrella Academy. More than a season of Ozark.

In fact, every single episode of this show costs more than the entire series runs of most hit shows on other networks. When you are spending that kind of money, you need a lot better return. It's just not sustainable.

If you have any actual evidence of your assertion- that this type of spending on content is, in fact, not just some kind of new-fangled Underwear Gnome scheme, provide it. Because it's this type of spending on content that led to all the retrenchment we've been seeing this year, starting with Zaslav and continuing on with the strike(s) - which the studios haven't avoided because they will allow them to get out of some of the onerous content contract they signed.

Again, the repeated assertion that a show that is, by far, the most expensive show in the history of television is somehow a success for Prime despite the fairly well-known and well-reported evidence otherwise - and not in clickbait articles, but in the industry press, is somewhat ... odd. Perhaps Bezos and co. are playing 4-D Chess, or perhaps they overspent for subpar content. I'll put my money down on overspending, given that it seems to be part and parcel with the structural issues that Prime has had.

Seems like a lot of money to spend to get an edge in the book market...

 

[Zaukrie]

Mind boggling that RoP cost that much. Do they literally light the sets by burning money?

I hope the actors strike.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Mind boggling that RoP cost that much. Do they literally light the sets by burning money?

I hope the actors strike.

It truly is. In fairness, there has been a substantial amount of inflation for a few reasons- some beyond the control of the studios (COVID protocols). Some because you have a bunch of players all looking to increase content.

But the two primary drivers have been that there has been a dramatic upturn in high-cost genre shows greenlit (Those MCU and Star Wars shows aren't cheap either ... well, except in comparison to ROP). And there was a giant explosion in stupidity. ROP might be most expensive- and I doubt that will be surpassed for a long time- but Citadel is probably the most stupid expediture.

As for the strike, I hope they go on strike because it will be a force multiplier with the writers, and I am sympathetic with most of their demands. That said ... it's painful. It's always painful. We think about the big-time stars, but it's all the small people in the Biz that are going to be struggling to make their rent.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

We finished Rings of Power as well and liked it, although it obviously could have used another pass at both the plotting and scripting stages.

I hate-watched Wheel of Time the first season, typically laying on the couch on a Sunday morning, but life's too short to bother with that again, unless news comes out that Rosamund Pike has pulled off a violent coup and had the showrunner, writers, directors, cinematographers, costumers and art directors all killed and replaced with her own people.

 

[Zaukrie]

We finished Rings of Power as well and liked it, although it obviously could have another pass at both the plotting and scripting stages.

I hate-watched Wheel of Time the first season, typically laying on the couch on a Sunday morning, but life's too short to bother with that again, unless news comes out that Rosamund Pike has pulled off a violent coup and had the showrunner, writers, directors, cinematographers, costumers and art directors all killed and replaced with her own people.

We enjoyed both shows, but I don't want to derail the thread.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Speaking of how streamers spend their money or don't: Read This: Orange Is The New Black cast wasn't paid very well

Recurring cast members of Orange is the New Black -- meaning most of the prisoners who weren't in every single episodes (i.e. most of them) -- often had second jobs or considered going on food stamps while on the show, while Netflix head Ted Serandos was gloating OITNB had a bigger audience than Game of Thrones.

 

[Zaukrie]

Speaking of how streamers spend their money or don't: Read This: Orange Is The New Black cast wasn't paid very well

Recurring cast members of Orange is the New Black -- meaning most of the prisoners who weren't in every single episodes (i.e. most of them) -- often had second jobs or considered going on food stamps while on the show, while Netflix head Ted Serandos was gloating OITNB had a bigger audience than Game of Thrones.

which is why I'm behind the union 100% on this.......

 

[trappedslider]

It truly is. In fairness, there has been a substantial amount of inflation for a few reasons- some beyond the control of the studios (COVID protocols). Some because you have a bunch of players all looking to increase content.

But the two primary drivers have been that there has been a dramatic upturn in high-cost genre shows greenlit (Those MCU and Star Wars shows aren't cheap either ... well, except in comparison to ROP). And there was a giant explosion in stupidity. ROP might be most expensive- and I doubt that will be surpassed for a long time- but Citadel is probably the most stupid expediture.

As for the strike, I hope they go on strike because it will be a force multiplier with the writers, and I am sympathetic with most of their demands. That said ... it's painful. It's always painful. We think about the big-time stars, but it's all the small people in the Biz that are going to be struggling to make their rent.

SAG-AFTRA Contract Talks Fail To Reach Deal; National Board Meeting Thursday Morning To Launch Strike; Sides Issue Statements

UPDATED with AMPTP statement, 1:07 AM: Contract negotiations between SAG-AFTRA and the AMPTP broke off tonight, and the guild’s national board will meet Thursday morning to formally approve t…

deadline.com

hope granted