Level Up (A5E) Strength − Size matters

[DND_Reborn]

I think part of the bumbling giant comes from extra extra large does equal slower when it comes to humans. Be it hand speed, staying on one's feet or sprinting 200 yards. I know football linemen are the exception to sprinting, but not really. If you look at other athletes who train just as much and as hard, they are much better. Same is true for hand speed (look at boxers, MMA) and balance (gymnasts). The big athlete can always push more and hit harder. But not the other attributes when compared to someone who trains as hard.

Sumo wrestlers have incredible hand speed, as do linemen, etc. You have to remember when it comes to moving all that weight, that increased your fast-twitch muscle fibers, which are also responsible for speed. I'm not saying bigger people are faster over all (by any means), but it is also a gross misconception that they are necessarily slower at all.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I'd prefer to just leave it alone. But if you twist my arm and FORCE me to choose, I think like the idea of capping Strength and Dexterity with a creature's size.

Small characters: Dex is capped at 22, and Strength is capped at 18.
Medium characters: Dex and Strength both capped at 20.
"Powerful build" characters: Dex capped at 18, and Strength is capped at 22.
Large characters: Dex capped at 16, Strength capped at 24.

Decrease everything by 2 and I am on board.

 

[Haldrik]

Size goes metric


• Gargantuan − beyond 10x10 meters
• Huge − between 3x3 meters upto 10x10 meters
• Large − between 1x1 meter upto 3x3 meters
• Medium 1x1 meter




The following calculations derive from reallife medical height-weight formulas, but convert to a formula that can extrapolate for impossible sizes, such as giants. The height-weight refers to a human-shaped athletic "swimmers" build. The calculations are modified to round numbers, thus serve for rough estimates.

• Gargantuan − beyond 10,000 kg ≈ beyond 9 meters tall
• Huge − 1000 kg to 10,000 kg ≈ 4 meters to 9 meters tall
• Large − 100 kg to 1000 kg ≈ 2 meters to 4 meters tall
• Medium − 10 kg to 100 kg ≈ 1 meter to 2 meters tall

Compare, officially, the Huge height of giants (roughly 5 to 8 meters tall ≈ 16 to 26 feet tall) occupies Huge space (roughly 4.5x4.5 meters ≈ 15x15 feet).

A Gargantuan whale easily surpasses 10 meters. Some almost reach 30 meters, 175,000 kg.

Notice, when defining "Large" by the round number of 2 meters or higher (6ft7+), it is Rare but possible for a human to be naturally Large. If so, there can be a Constitution prerequisite of say 15, to require a character to invest. I feel it is a good idea, flavorwise, to allow Large character concepts to be part of the fantasy world. The Monster Manual implies but doesnt require a damage bonus for larger sizes. It is ok if a Large player character to lack a damage bonus, or else balance in a d6 size bonus to damage for a hit after all other damage is calculated. An extra 3.5 hp of damage is no big deal, and can be part of a feat benefit that grants Large size. In 5e, Large creatures dont gain extra reach.

 

[CleverNickName]

I'm a 203cm tall (6'-8") person who weighs 109kg (240 lbs), and I don't want to be called "Large." The preferred term is "Powerfully Built."

 

[Cadence]

• Large − 100 kg to 1000 kg

Except for the athletic part, it feels like 1/2 of America is probably officially "Large" or heading that way by that metric. Maybe the arguments about strength not being associated with size are more on target than I thought at first :-/

 

[Haldrik]

.

Except for the athletic part, it feels like 1/2 of America is probably officially "Large" or heading that way by that metric. Maybe the arguments about strength not being associated with size are more on target than I thought at first :-/

Heh, big difference between muscle mass and other kinds of mass!

For gauging Size, the rule of thumb would be both taller than 2 meters and more than 100 kg, to define Large. The DM can adjudicate any corner cases.

 

[Scott Christian]

Sumo wrestlers have incredible hand speed, as do linemen, etc. You have to remember when it comes to moving all that weight, that increased your fast-twitch muscle fibers, which are also responsible for speed. I'm not saying bigger people are faster over all (by any means), but it is also a gross misconception that they are necessarily slower at all.

I agree. I will counter with a slight premise: those are very repetitive motions as opposed to off the cuff hand speed movements. But, I think you are right; big person swings a sword a million times, they can probably do it very fast.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I agree. I will counter with a slight premise: those are very repetitive motions as opposed to off the cuff hand speed movements. But, I think you are right; big person swings a sword a million times, they can probably do it very fast.

Sure, that's why I wanted to stress I am not saying even most people who are stronger are necessarily quick, but there's enough people who are I can't think there is a correlation in the other direction either.

Of course, being athletic brings me back to an argument I made a long time ago about 5E. You aren't athletic because you are strong, you are strong because you are athletic. This is why the idea that Strength assumes some training in athletics along with natural talent is, IMO, sort of backwards thinking. I think a game system would be better served that your base score (e.g. Strength) is better when your skills (e.g. Athletics) has proficiency. In the same light, a person is smarter the more they know (although they might not be as nice LOL), but the opposite is not necessarily true. If that makes sense... shrug

 

[Scott Christian]

Sure, that's why I wanted to stress I am not saying even most people who are stronger are necessarily quick, but there's enough people who are I can't think there is a correlation in the other direction either.

Of course, being athletic brings me back to an argument I made a long time ago about 5E. You aren't athletic because you are strong, you are strong because you are athletic. This is why the idea that Strength assumes some training in athletics along with natural talent is, IMO, sort of backwards thinking. I think a game system would be better served that your base score (e.g. Strength) is better when your skills (e.g. Athletics) has proficiency. In the same light, a person is smarter the more they know (although they might not be as nice LOL), but the opposite is not necessarily true. If that makes sense... shrug

Great idea. Like the backward (according to how a character is built) design.