Striking a balance...

[Greenfield]

Okay, the game is D&D 3.5, the Level is 10/11, and the goal is to help an underpowered party.

We have a party of 5 PCs, as follows:

Wiz5/Cleric5/MysticThurge1 (Practiced spellcaster twice)
Ranger5/Druid6 (Archery package)
Rogue3/Cleric7
Monk 10/Tattoed Monk1
Rogue3/Duskblade8

The party will be any 4 of those, plus the PC I'm about to build.

ACs are in the high teens or low twenties, with the exception of the Monk at 25.

We've just lost the Rogue/Cleric, but I'm pretty sure the replacement will be another Rogue/Cleric because that's what this player has played over and over again in this campaign.

Right now, when we face something that's at or near our level, by the book, we get our heads handed to us. I need a way to beef up the party, without overtly powergaming.

I was thinking about the Ultimate Magus approach that has been discussed here before. Beguiler/Wizard/Ultimate Magus, with Practiced Spellcaster to keep the Wiz levels as the ones that bump at every opportunity.

Now, what happens if you have Ring of Wizardry for any given level, and two classes that can both benefit from it? Apply once? Apply twice? Apply for a new idea?

My goal is to make us more capable of facing things that are our CR +/- 1, without having the single PC dominate play.

Suggestions? Thoughts?

 

[parinho7]

all casters are crippled, i would not be surprised if the monk is the best character of the group, and to think that monks suck tell the rogue/cleric to be a straight cleric. put a stop to the caster level loss.

retrain them to have only one class, or a prestige classes that advances spellcasting

 

[Dandu]

I sympathize with your predicament, but I do not believe I can provide assistance within the listed criteria.

 

[Ahnehnois]

I would suggest focusing on support casting with whatever casters you end up with to try to make the whole party a bit better. I would also consider looking through PHBII/DMGII for teamwork benefits/companion spirits that would give the whole party a boost.

 

[Flatus Maximus]

You know, here's what I'd do: Play what you think is fun, but talk to the DM and say, "Look, we have a party full of cripples. Can you tone it down a little?" Having the DM dial it up to 11 (or even 5) is just not gonna work with this party, no matter what you build.

 

[Greenfield]

Actually, the one PC I didn't list is probably the "best" in the party: I run a Bard9/Sand Shaper1/Sublime Chord1.

Yeah, the Bard is the best offensive caster in the party, and the Monk is the best fighter.

But the Bard is likely to retire soon per choice or per force. The current DM is unhappy with his use of Blade Weave in melee, unhappy that a 2nd level spell can keep an opponent out of combat, round after round, if they have a poor Will save. (For those unfamiliar, it gives a melee fighter/caster a single touch attack each round, on top of their normal complement of attacks. If the TA hits, the target has to make a Will save or be Dazed for a round, losing all actions.)

As a result, the DM has been giving Iron Will to everything that takes the field, or just picking opponents that can't be affected by it.

And it's sad that it's the 9 Strength Bard's melee prowess that has the DM upset. Sad that the Bard is even being forced into melee often enough to piss off the DM with his tactics.

I wonder how he'll react to Hold Person?

In the mean time, however, I can't design the other players' characters for them. Whatever I do will have to be done through my own character design.

So, on the one hand I can go with a tricked-out spell caster.

On the other hand I can go with a tricked out melee fighter. Or even a non-tricked out one. A straight powerhouse fighter would set a direction as well.

Hmmm... In light of my other recent thread, I wonder how a WereBear fighter would work out?

Applying the Natural Lycanthrope template straight from the book to a well statted Human Fighter or Ranger would take some harsh ECL hits, and his hit points would likely be a bit weak, but he'd be an absolute horror in combat. (1 level of Fighter or Ranger, 6 dice of Bear and +3 level adjustment totals to 10th level, right in our range. +16 Strength, Dex +2, Con +6, Wisdom +2, a stack of feats, natural armor, DR10/Silver, enhanced senses. )

Not that I'd do the were-Bear thing. Like I said, not trying to be party dominant, just trying to up their game a bit, make the party more capable of fighting things in what's supposed to be our own weight class.

But it is a bit of fun to think about, isn't it?

 

[kitcik]

That is an unfortunate state of affairs.

Optimize an Expert and see how fast your DM starts working against you?

Sounds like other players need a coach, not a strong companion.

 

[Dandu]

If you optimize, the DM will probably start to target you as well. Even if you're just buffing others.

I say play a Truenamer and let the cards fall where they may. After all, it's not about winning the game.

 

[Buugipopuu]

Multiclassing is an advanced technique. If you do it wrong you'll probably end up with something weaker than either of the two classes. Looks like some people either didn't know this, or didn't care (and in the latter case, obviously the DM should pretend they're an ECL or two lower than they are when planning encounters).

Depending on the nature of the campaign, the DM may have every right to optimise the party's enemies against the one or two strong members in a weak party, even if said strong members aren't actually that strong compared to 'optimised' builds. Unless they kill everyone who sees them fight, PCs are bound to get a reputation. And when one guy stands out, that reputation is "See this guy? Kill him first." Of course, this does rely on information flowing between encounters, and plausible ways of NPCs optimising (going out of their way to hire mercenaries which target said PC's weaknesses, or research spells/acquire magical items, or whatever).

In am (epic) game I'm DMing, the Wizard is miles better than the rest of the party (no surprises there), but a significant part of the plot is that actually the BBEG is manipulating everything behind the scenes specifically to kill the PCs, and the earlier encounters were simply throwaway schemes designed to reveal the weaknesses of the party. When the weaknesses of the PCs became known, it was only natural that most encounters deliberately targeted them. That said Wizard was a bit of a one trick pony didn't help matters.

 

[Empirate]

I'd say play something purely utility and support oriented, with a bit of built-in fun and versatility. That way, you can help out in whatever situation your party finds itself in, and don't run too much of a risk of overshadowing anybody - or angering your game-mechanically incompetent DM.

Factotum (no 'strange skill' abuse, like Iaijutsu Focus etc.) comes to mind, or a support oriented Swordsage/Crusader (White Raven, Setting Sun etc.), or a socially focused Binder (Naberius!), maybe a Dragon Shaman?