Subdual Damage and Deathless Frenzy

[Hypersmurf]

Why bother dealing any non-lethal damage at all? Everybody starts out with 0 non-lethal damage.

Not necessarily. D&D quite frequently draws a distinction between 'zero' and 'none'. If someone has no non-lethal damage, it is neither greater nor less than -1; it simply cannot be compared. If someone has 0 points of non-lethal damage, that is greater than -1. But I would suggest that if you have 1 point of non-lethal damage and get cured, you do not have 0 points; rather, you have no non-lethal damage remaining.

I must have missed the sentence where they said, "The first line of every class feature is fluff text, not actual description of the ability, and not only may be ignored, but should be deliberately contradicted." Because I don't see that line, and without it, even rules literalism does not explain how someone could rule that nonlethal damage knocks out someone who scorns death and unconsciousness.

What would be the effect on a Deathless Frenzying character hit with a Deep Slumber spell?

What if his Wisdom is drained to 0?

What if his Con is drained to zero (assuming duration remaining on the Frenzy)?

-Hyp.

 

[ken-ichi]

Seing that the Frenzy ability deals nonlethal damage, the deathless frenzy ability as written does not work if it does not apply to nonlethal damage as well. Upon reaching the point at which the Deathless Frenzy would kick in it would automatically fail due to the nonlethal damage acquired through Frenzying. So I must assume that the writer neglected to account for nonlethal damage and I must then assume that the ability prevents nonlethal damage from rendering the character unconcious.

So in this case I have to disregard strict RAW and apply the RAI.

 

[pawsplay]

What would be the effect on a Deathless Frenzying character hit with a Deep Slumber spell?

It causes "magical slumber," not unconsciousness.

What if his Wisdom is drained to 0?

Very similar:

Wisdom 0 means that the character is withdrawn into a deep sleep filled with nightmares, helpless

What if his Con is drained to zero (assuming duration remaining on the Frenzy)?

This calls for some interpretation. Since massive damage and instant death effects will stop deathless frenzy, I think death by loss of Con would kill them.

Note that "death" and "unsciousness" are specifically the results of lethal and nonlethal damage specifically. I believe, by the RAW, nonlethal damage is protected against. Perhaps not as explicitly as one might like, but nonetheless.

 

[Malum]

No room for ambiguity or interpretation huh?

Malum

 

[Shadeus]

This is a heck of a thread on how to make an already overpowered ability more so.

 

[pawsplay]

This is a heck of a thread on how to make an already overpowered ability more so.

How so? This seems to be a debate about whether it lasts one round, or the duration listed in its description. I don't see any nifty new tricks coming up in this discussion.

 

[DungeonMaester]

> Althought the original question has been answered, it will be answered again.

>Yes, When you take damage of a type that you are immune to, it does 0 damage. Much like if a wizard is immune to eletric damage, he takes nothing from shocking grasp, being immune to non-leathal damage means non leathal damage does 0 damage.

>This is why a 10th level palemaster with regeneration is a pain in the ass.

Sorry for any typos in advance.

---Rusty

 

[Hypersmurf]

Very similar:

Wisdom 0 means that the character is withdrawn into a deep sleep filled with nightmares, helpless

Check under 'Ability Drained':
Ability Drained: The character has permanently lost 1 or more ability score points. The character can regain these points only through magical means. A character with Strength 0 falls to the ground and is helpless. A character with Dexterity 0 is paralyzed. A character with Constitution 0 is dead. A character with Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma 0 is unconscious.

And if we use Int instead of Wisdom, the Ability Loss text fits as well:
Intelligence 0 means that the character cannot think and is unconscious in a coma-like stupor, helpless.

So does the Frenzy allow the Berserker to 'scorn' the unconsciousness from a 0 Int?

Is he conscious in a coma-like stupor, helpless? Is he unaffected? Is he conscious but unable to think (sounds like a Frenzy anyway)? Or is he unconscious, because 'scorns unconsciousness' doesn't actually allow him to stay conscious?

-Hyp.

 

[Sejs]

which would mean Deathless Frenzy would always last a maximum of 1 round.

I'm confused - how did you come to this conclusion again?

 

[Hypersmurf]

I'm confused - how did you come to this conclusion again?

I think he means the 'Deathless' part, rather than the 'Frenzy' part.

Once you drop below 0 hit points, you're guaranteed to have at least 2 non-lethal damage within a round, so the Deathless part of the Frenzy doesn't help much.

-Hyp.