Sudden Metamagic Feats Rock!

Psion said:
Probably for the best.

I took the hit on that one, but it would be a shame if more people had to buy this overpriced book just to get at the small selection of interesting tidbits.

I got it cheap. My local chain bookstore lets you trade in used cd's or dvd's for store credit. I paid about $4 for it. They also sometimes screw up their pricing on gaming books. When the Epic Level Handbook hit the shelves, I paid 12 dollars for it. Got the Expanded Psionics Handbook for about 3 dollars... no kidding. They've since tightened up their attention spans where that is concerned, but I got some great deals!
 

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Thanee said:
That's a general problem with all the "free" metamagic, however. Metamagic rods being the worst of the bunch.

And they did errata the Incantatrix Instant Metamagic ability... the only one with reasonable prerequisites/limitations apart from most of the Sudden Metamagic feats (Sudden Maximize is a bit low with prerequisites, should at least have Maximize Spell instead of any metamagic feat)... but left out all the others (i.e. metamagic rods, Divine Metamagic, Metamagic Effect). Rather strange choice, really.
Hm, maybe MM rods and sudden MM feats shouldn't allow you to exceed the maximum spell level you can cast...

In any case, I think I'm going to change the prereqs for Sudden Maximize to Maximize Spell.
 

Darkness said:
Hm, maybe MM rods and sudden MM feats shouldn't allow you to exceed the maximum spell level you can cast...

... and allow it 3 times per day instead of 1 ?

Come on, you were on such a good roll. Why the hat of d20 ? IMC, no-one picked a sudden MM feat yet because of the one-shot thing. Even as is. No-one would pick it in almost every campaign if it wouldn't allow you to exceed the maximum spell level you can cast. I wouldn't. I certainly wouldn't. Why should I ? Empower once per day, or as many slots as I want ? It's a no-brainer.

In any case, I think I'm going to change the prereqs for Sudden Maximize to Maximize Spell.

I don't see why you would do that, but hey, it's your campaign.

BTW did you check the prereqs of sudden quicken ? Pretty darn obscene. Why create the feat at all if you don't intend the players to be able to get it ??
 

Trainz said:
BTW did you check the prereqs of sudden quicken ? Pretty darn obscene. Why create the feat at all if you don't intend the players to be able to get it ??

Because someone will take it. :)

Cheers!
 

MerricB said:
Because someone will take it. :)

Cheers!

I don't think so. ;)

Assuming a player would get all those sudden MM, above the must-haves (Improved Init et al), he will be epic. With 3 epic feats, you get the equivalent of sudden quicken AT WILL, WITH ALL YOUR SPELLS.

So... no.
 

No way. That wouldn't be any fun for anyone.

Darkness said:
Why? Do you like to script your games in great detail and leave PCs little room to maneuver?

No, I use a broad brush stroke at the ADVENTURE level. That is my script.....

For instance, I take a game year calendar and lay out WHEN a particular adventure, scenario, encounter, natural disaster or event will generally occur. Not an exact date mind you, just a window of opportunity, like between weeks 24 and 30 of the game year.

Then, when the time draws near, I start throwing the bones to the players through rumors, innuendo, capturing a BBEG....any way I feel I want to disseminate the plot hook. I also make sure that I have hooks overlap, so at times it creates tension as to WHICH hook to pursue. This allows me to weave my own adventures in with prefab Dungeon adventures, modules, etc.

What happens when they get into the adventure? Anything goes.
Kill a BBEG? OK.
TPK? Hey it's been known to happen.
Fail to complete the adventure? Check.
Walk thru and aventure like it wasn't there? Yup.
LEAVE the campaign area? It happened in my current campaign.

All bets are off once we sit down at the table and start rolling dice.

Essentially, I plan events in the region that will happen REGARDLESS of the PC's existence. Now if they pursue an adventure hook and change the future based on the outcome of the adventure, then I look down the line of events that are still out there and see if the changes will affect anything and make updates.....

So what happens if the PCs come up with in-game ways to pursue their own adventures and goals? GREAT! Sure it's more work for me, but that means the players are way into their PCs. This means it's a successful campaign all around.

The fun part, and the part that takes a ton of work, is tying all the adventures and player motivations together in some meaningful story arc. I've gone through 5 or 6 BBEGs during one campaign that stretched 3 years of real time. On the other hand, I've also had a campaign where there was only one BBEG that survived until his death ended the campaign.

So no, I DON'T plan every last detail. In fact, it's quite the opposite. I plan a framework to work within, and then wing everything else, crafting a story out of the events that happen.

AS far as context for my earlier comments, in a micro-planning sense, if I need the BBEG to make a cameo, I want to make sure that he does so with a modicrum of caution - caution that the NPC would exercise since his goal is to survive to accomplish his own goals! By having a stable rule set, I can have a measure of certainty as a DM and understand better when a situation is too threatening or not at all dangerous, or somewhere in between.

So when I talk about planning, this is what I mean.
 


Izerath said:
Hm, that's quite similar to what I'm doing. Great minds think alike, I suppose. ;)
Izerath said:
By having a stable rule set, I can have a measure of certainty as a DM and understand better when a situation is too threatening or not at all dangerous, or somewhere in between.
Well, I can understand that.

On the other hand, it's very cool from a PC's perspective.

In the end, you have to choose between several options, none of which is optimal:

Let the PC have his nuke and throw story concerns to the winds.
Sacrifice story for better protection of the BBEG. (I.e., let him prefer tactics over interesting and cool behavior.)
Nerf the beloved toy so you don't have to worry that it wrecks your encounters.

It's a question of gaming philosophy, of course, and no option is "right" for everyone.

Personally, I'd give the PC enough rope to hang himself. Let him walk over tough opponents and let him get really cocky. Even if he doesn't make a mistake, he'll acquire a reputation as a blasting machine. His enemies should take that into account when attacking him. (Invisible assassin - good; cavalry charge bad. Unless they're fire-resistant, anyway.) For example, having hostages nearby is a good method of discouraging fireball use (or ruining his morality and social standing - either way, he's at a disadvantage).
But that's just me. YMMV.
 


swrushing said:
Oddly enough, there are those who would look upon the one-shot kill of a tenth level active and buffed adversary by a 6th level character with a special feat etc as a sign of a problem, instead of a reason for rejoicing.
10th level mage, average hit ponts: 25. Maybe he's got a toad and/or a decent con - let's say 45.

1st level orc warrior armed with greataxe, maximum damage: 48.

If a greataxe can take out 10th level wizards in one hit, it is clearly borken.
 

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