Sudden Metamagic Feats Rock!

[Darkness]

10th level mage, average hit ponts: 25. Maybe he's got a toad and/or a decent con - let's say 45.

26.5 and 46.5, actually. Only average characters don't get max hp for the first HD. (They also roll 3d6 for stats.)

1st level orc warrior armed with greataxe, maximum damage: 48.

If a greataxe can take out 10th level wizards in one hit, it is clearly borken.

Interesting. Let's run the numbers.

First of all, a crit with a greataxe requires a natural 20. That's a 5% chance.

You also need to confirm that crit, but let's leave that aside for the moment.

Next, keep in mind that a crit multiplies the number of base weapon damage dice; you don't roll the die and multiply it.

Thus, the chance for three 12s on 3d12 is 1 in 12^3, i.e., 1 in 1,728. Considering that you have only a 5% chance for a threat to begin with, that means 1 attack in 34,560 will cause this damage.

Now... We have a Wizard with an average of 46 hp, so we don't need to roll quite the maximum. (Obviously, some Wizards will be more hardy and others, less so. Con 14 is somewhat common, though, so it'll suffice for this calculation. Plus, min/maxed gray/sun elves with a low Con deserve what they get.) 12, 12, 11 will take the Wizard out, as will 12, 11, 11. Both occur three times each in 1,728.

So our total chance of taking out that Wizard in one blow (without even accounting for the need to confirm the crit) is 7 in 34,560 or 1 in 4,937.

If these odds frighten you, might I recommend you take up bonsai planting instead of adventuring?

 

[swrushing]

If these odds frighten you, might I recommend you take up bonsai planting instead of adventuring?

Base reflex save for 10th level wizard = +3
Assume +3 bonus from 16 dex +3
Assume +2 from item +2
net +8

Base save DC for fireball 13
Assume +3 for nase 16 int +3
Assume no other enhancement from feats or items to int or DC +0

Odds of failing save = 35%

Something of a difference.

This also ignores the difference between "getting to melee range, swinging and hitting" and "place a fireball within 20'" which might maybe skew the data a little further.

 

[swrushing]

pondering the following change to sudden metamagic (as opposed to simply disallowing the current ones)

***********

Spell Slots used: When you use a sudden metam,agic feat to cast a spell you have prepared, you must expend that porepared spell AND an open slot of the level of the metamagiced spell.

Example: When casting a sudden empowered fireball, the prepared fireball is spent and so is an open 5th level spell slot.

*********

Most every wixard i ever saw played had at least one spell slot open at each level until needed, most had two.

This limit will simultaneously prevent casting spells above youe weight class and also charge you at least the normal high level spell slot.

 

[beaver1024]

Even on a failed save, I'd expect a 10th level wizard to live through that kind of damage.

Thanks to False Life!

Bye
Thanee

Add to this Empowered False Life. Wow a metamagic feat is actually useful!

 

[beaver1024]

That's some pretty specific circumstances, tho. In an average campaign, I'd dare to say, that these feats are not so great.

Even in such a campaign, I'd rate the regular Still and Silent Spell feats higher for a spontaneous caster.

Bye
Thanee

Agreed again although I've never seen any of my players take the above feats even when the situation warrants it.

 

[Psychic Warrior]

And if Joe spends his power and can't rest before the final showdown, he can't hurt your plans. One, damage wasn't calculated completely correctly. It should have been lower. Two, the enemy didn't fight tactically sound. He wasted actions and didn't even get an effective defense out of it. Three, wizards can't take much damage, whether from a spell or a raging barbarian. If he had been a bebilith (same CR), he'd be alive and well now. By backing up his arrogance mechanically. A minor globe of invulnerability or something - quite within the means of a Wiz10 - just might have sufficed.
D&D is not a movie, novel or similar thing. I don't want to be mean, but I must say that neglecting defenses and hoping players don't act tactically effectively is not a good plan for a BBEG who wants to put himself into harm's way to tease them.

I agree! I have had more than one BBEG die in the first round of combat due to my poor choice as a DM for their actions. It has made me a better DM tactically and now, if I feel the need to create an arrgoant villian who taunts the party, I make damn sure he's got some back up when he shows his ugly face. I can't believe the DM felt a 10th level wizard with what? 40hp? could stand against the whole party for 5 rounds and not get wasted.

As for these 'sudden' metamagic feats I'll be honest and say I have never heard of them until today. What book(s) are they in?

 

[JoeGKushner]

The Complete Arcane has the Sudden feats.

Any other books with 'em in them? I can't recall off the top of my head.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

A 10th level character is supposed to be about the power level of an entire party of four sixth level guys, so that the fight between them would be a 50/50 win/lose proposition.

This is what I really don't understand.

"This fight should have been a 50/50 proposition."

Last I checked, that means there's an even chance that either would win.

The party won.

How does that invalidate the 50 / 50 proposition?

Sheesh, people and their statistics - and it isn't just in this thread, either. It happens everywhere! "I figured the party would have a 1 in 10 chance of winning, and they won? How did that happen?" etc.

 

[Psychic Warrior]

The Complete Arcane has the Sudden feats.

Any other books with 'em in them? I can't recall off the top of my head.

Thanks JoeGK.

I don't have Complete Arcane but some of my players have access to it. Might have to borrow it (although none of them have come to me clamouring for Sudden Metamagics).

 

[JoeGKushner]

Well, they're not for everyone.

My long term survivability could've probably used another feat, but the GM doesn't do long term campaigns and doesn't do dungeon crawls so for me, it was perfect.