D&D 5E Suggest a House Rule for flexible Sorcerer spells known

[Irda Ranger]

I admit this is a matter of personal taste, but I HATE the very concept of limited spells known. Detest it, and detest classes that are built that way. Every class has a big, beautiful spell list (some more than others, but that's neither here nor there), and a player of a limited-spells-known class will never get to use most of them. It's a waste. It also limits my (as a DM) flexibility, because I can't count on the characters having access to any particular magic when I make my adventures.

So.

I have made house rules that allow for some flexibility in the classes that don't have it per the PHB. Bards have a "song book" that mostly works like a Wizard spellbook (except it's written in a idiosyncratic musical notation, get it?), and they prepare spells with daily music practice. Warlocks can "borrow" 2-3 spells (in addition to their regular Spells Known) from their patron at the end of a long rest, and can cast them using a regular spell slot or Mystic Arcanum slot.

But what about Sorcerers? I'm struggling to think of a house rule that would allow for some flexibility while being consistent with the classes' concept of a natural, intuitive spellcaster. Any ideas? Has anyone implemented a similar rule?

(Please no replies of "Don't do this" or "That isn't what the Sorcerer is". I don't care. I'd rather just nix the class entirely than have a class with limited spells known. Solutions only, please. Thanks.)

 

[ScuroNotte]

In the 2 tables I play at, the number known of known spells was increased to 22, as the PHB Bard. You start with 3 spells known at 1st, then 1 additional spell per level thereafter. It has worked extremely well.

 

[stoneagewar3]

I often allow sorcerers to cast spells not on their known list but has seen it recently, requires a check, spell slot is used regardless. Sometimes it triggers unexpected effects as well
edit: to be fair I allow any arcane caster to do it, with sorcerers having the added bonus of spending SP to decrease DC

 

[neogod22]

I admit this is a matter of personal taste, but I HATE the very concept of limited spells known. Detest it, and detest classes that are built that way. Every class has a big, beautiful spell list (some more than others, but that's neither here nor there), and a player of a limited-spells-known class will never get to use most of them. It's a waste. It also limits my (as a DM) flexibility, because I can't count on the characters having access to any particular magic when I make my adventures.

So.

I have made house rules that allow for some flexibility in the classes that don't have it per the PHB. Bards have a "song book" that mostly works like a Wizard spellbook (except it's written in a idiosyncratic musical notation, get it?), and they prepare spells with daily music practice. Warlocks can "borrow" 2-3 spells (in addition to their regular Spells Known) from their patron at the end of a long rest, and can cast them using a regular spell slot or Mystic Arcanum slot.

But what about Sorcerers? I'm struggling to think of a house rule that would allow for some flexibility while being consistent with the classes' concept of a natural, intuitive spellcaster. Any ideas? Has anyone implemented a similar rule?

(Please no replies of "Don't do this" or "That isn't what the Sorcerer is". I don't care. I'd rather just nix the class entirely than have a class with limited spells known. Solutions only, please. Thanks.)

I understand your frustration but, I think sorcerers are fine with a limited spell list. The reason why is, if there is a player new to the game, or even a veteran who wants to play an arcane caster for the 1st time, sorcerer is perfect. The limited number of spells known makes them less intimidating as a class, since the only other thing they have pretty much is their metamagic.

One way to beef up any caster's arsenal is with scrolls, wands, and staves. While wands and staves grants permanent extra spells, don't be afraid to have your adventurers come across scrolls you would like them to use. (I.e. the party comes across a scroll of waterbreathing a dungeon, later that adventure, the tunnels they need to get through are flooded, good thing the sorcerer has that scroll).

Also, if as a DM you can have the characters meet powerful beings who gift the sorcerer knowledge of a spell as a reward. By imprinting the knowledge directly into your being (I.e. like how you learned dragon words in Skyrim).

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[neogod22]

Actually thinking about it, the fact that most casters do have limited spells, it gives value to scrolls.

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[Irda Ranger]

I often allow sorcerers to cast spells not on their known list but has seen it recently, requires a check, spell slot is used regardless. Sometimes it triggers unexpected effects as well
edit: to be fair I allow any arcane caster to do it, with sorcerers having the added bonus of spending SP to decrease DC

Hmmm. Maybe make use of the Wild Magic table. Allow a Sorcerer to replace a spell between levels, but the new spell gets Wild Magic results for a couple days.

 

[Satyrn]

I admit this is a matter of personal taste, but I HATE the very concept of limited spells known. Detest it, and detest classes that are built that way. Every class has a big, beautiful spell list (some more than others, but that's neither here nor there), and a player of a limited-spells-known class will never get to use most of them. It's a waste. It also limits my (as a DM) flexibility, because I can't count on the characters having access to any particular magic when I make my adventures.

So.

I have made house rules that allow for some flexibility in the classes that don't have it per the PHB. Bards have a "song book" that mostly works like a Wizard spellbook (except it's written in a idiosyncratic musical notation, get it?), and they prepare spells with daily music practice. Warlocks can "borrow" 2-3 spells (in addition to their regular Spells Known) from their patron at the end of a long rest, and can cast them using a regular spell slot or Mystic Arcanum slot.

But what about Sorcerers? I'm struggling to think of a house rule that would allow for some flexibility while being consistent with the classes' concept of a natural, intuitive spellcaster. Any ideas? Has anyone implemented a similar rule?

(Please no replies of "Don't do this" or "That isn't what the Sorcerer is". I don't care. I'd rather just nix the class entirely than have a class with limited spells known. Solutions only, please. Thanks.)

Oh, what if

1)you build themed spell lists for each sorcerer subclass
2)whenever a sorcerer chooses a spell, they can select from the broad sorcerer list or from their theme list.


Then, at each long rest, they can swap any number of theme spells for a different theme spell Call it "attuning to the magic" or something like that. Meanwhile, any spell they chose from the basic sorcerer list stays permanement and unchangeable, so it's up to each player how fixed or flexible his spell list can be.

 

[Irda Ranger]

Oh, what if

1)you build themed spell lists for each of them
2)whenever a sorcerer chooses a spell, they can select from the broad sorcerer list or from their theme list.


Then, at each long rest, they can swap any number of theme spells for a different theme spell Call it "attuning to the magic" or something like that. Meanwhile, any spell they chose from the basic sorcerer list stays permanement and unchangeable, so it's up to each player how fixed or flexible his spell list can be.

That's almost worse than the current system, which allows you to change any spell (not just your theme spells) when you level up. I was thinking something that allowed a sorcerer to change spells without having to level up.

 

[Satyrn]

That's almost worse than the current system, which allows you to change any spell (not just your theme spells) when you level up. I was thinking something that allowed a sorcerer to change spells without having to level up.

Then leave in changing up those basic sorcerer spells when you level up.

 

[5ekyu]

I admit this is a matter of personal taste, but I HATE the very concept of limited spells known. Detest it, and detest classes that are built that way. Every class has a big, beautiful spell list (some more than others, but that's neither here nor there), and a player of a limited-spells-known class will never get to use most of them. It's a waste. It also limits my (as a DM) flexibility, because I can't count on the characters having access to any particular magic when I make my adventures.

So.

I have made house rules that allow for some flexibility in the classes that don't have it per the PHB. Bards have a "song book" that mostly works like a Wizard spellbook (except it's written in a idiosyncratic musical notation, get it?), and they prepare spells with daily music practice. Warlocks can "borrow" 2-3 spells (in addition to their regular Spells Known) from their patron at the end of a long rest, and can cast them using a regular spell slot or Mystic Arcanum slot.

But what about Sorcerers? I'm struggling to think of a house rule that would allow for some flexibility while being consistent with the classes' concept of a natural, intuitive spellcaster. Any ideas? Has anyone implemented a similar rule?

(Please no replies of "Don't do this" or "That isn't what the Sorcerer is". I don't care. I'd rather just nix the class entirely than have a class with limited spells known. Solutions only, please. Thanks.)

Re the bold - struggling? Why?

House Rule#1: You know all the spells on your class list."

House Rule#2: You know all the spells on everyone's class lists.

Or pick somewhere in between. Nothing says there has to be a physical manifestation of your spells known as a game component.

Part of the purpose is to make sure they will have the spell from their list that you want them to have when you need them to have it right? Well, allowing a sorceror tattoos or any other limiting factor wont accomplish that at all.

Seems like an easy fix.