Summon Monster Duration

[dcollins]

On initiative 1 of round 3, the monster goes away, correct?

Correct (or technically immediately before initiative 1 of round 3, the monster goes away). One round of attacks for this monster.

 

[Xael]

Right. So, either it lasts for longer than the listed duration (the duration + 1 full round action), shorter than the listed duration (the duration - 1 round + 1 full round action), or you ignore that confusing sentence in the Astral Construct description.

This is why I think the sentence should just be ignored and it should be run just like the summon spells. It just makes no sense.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Well technically, the AC is not getting any extra duration because the actions do not take a quantised amount of time. Basically, since both the AC's actions and its disappearance happen at the same initiative (intiative 1 to borrow two's example), and you normally do not have a clearly expressed order for which should happen first, the writers are trying to tell you which of these two simultaneous actions to do first (give the AC its action). In order for the line to not make sense, you have to presuppose that allowing the extra attacks as I suggest is demonstrably wrong, rather than designer intent to disambiguate.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Extend spell can be a wonderful thing, because then you can get your summoned monsters to last minutes per level, and that can work for a couple battles depending on how fast your team moves.

Uh... an Extended Summon Monster lasts 2 rounds per level, not minutes per level.

-Hyp.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Uh... an Extended Summon Monster lasts 2 rounds per level, not minutes per level.

-Hyp.

Ooo, its Hyp! Any thoughts on the Astral Construct quandary?

 

[Infiniti2000]

Well technically, the AC is not getting any extra duration because the actions do not take a quantised amount of time. Basically, since both the AC's actions and its disappearance happen at the same initiative (intiative 1 to borrow two's example), and you normally do not have a clearly expressed order for which should happen first, the writers are trying to tell you which of these two simultaneous actions to do first (give the AC its action). In order for the line to not make sense, you have to presuppose that allowing the extra attacks as I suggest is demonstrably wrong, rather than designer intent to disambiguate.

That's not true. A full round action takes 6 seconds to complete. Just because the cyclic system allows for some oddness in interpretation does not mean that actions are instantaneous. That would be a free action (or something similar).

However, I don't disagree that they were trying to clarify the way astral construct works, for some bizarre reason (if it was so important, why not release errata covering summon monster as well?). Their intent doesn't change the fact that it accomplished the exact opposite, though. If the wording were the same as summon monster I, there would be no confusion, right?

 

[Dalamar]

From the 3.0 SRD, underline mine:

Summon Monster I
Conjuration (Summoning) [see text]
Level: Brd 1, Clr 1, Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S, F/DF
Casting Time: 1 full round
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: One summoned creature
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
This spell summons an outsider (extraplanar creature). It appears where the character designates and acts immediately, on the character’s turn. It attacks the character’s opponents to the best of its ability. If the character can communicate with the outsider, the character can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions. Summoned creatures act normally on the last round of the spell and disappear at the end of their turn.
The spell conjures one of the creatures from the 1st-level list on the Summon Monster table below. The character chooses which creature to summon, and can change that choice each time the spell is cast.
1st Level
Celestial dog (animal) LG
Celestial badger (animal) CG
Fiendish dire rat LE
Fiendish hawk (animal) CE
When the character uses a summoning spell to summon an air, chaotic, earth, evil, fire, good, lawful, or water creature, it is a spell of that type.

The text for the Astral Construct power is pretty much word for word the 3.0 power Astral Construct I, which is modeled after the 3.0 Summon spells. Seems some changes weren't caught when psionics got revisioned.

In other words, said sentence should most likely not be there in the 3.5 power, since it isn't in the 3.5 Summon Monster powers.

 

[Rystil Arden]

That's not true. A full round action takes 6 seconds to complete. Just because the cyclic system allows for some oddness in interpretation does not mean that actions are instantaneous. That would be a free action (or something similar).

However, I don't disagree that they were trying to clarify the way astral construct works, for some bizarre reason (if it was so important, why not release errata covering summon monster as well?). Their intent doesn't change the fact that it accomplished the exact opposite, though. If the wording were the same as summon monster I, there would be no confusion, right?

If the full-round action takes six seconds before it was fully complete, then a coup-de-grace would not be finished until just before the performer's next turn, allowing it to be interrupted by, for instance, killing the guy performing the CdG. This is not how the system works though. Similarly, if the AC's attack takes six seconds before it was fully complete, then the attack could be interrupted by the unsummoning.

 

[Rystil Arden]

From the 3.0 SRD, underline mine:
The text for the Astral Construct power is pretty much word for word the 3.0 power Astral Construct I, which is modeled after the 3.0 Summon spells. Seems some changes weren't caught when psionics got revisioned.

In other words, said sentence should most likely not be there in the 3.5 power, since it isn't in the 3.5 Summon Monster powers.

Considering that there was an extensive errata for the XPH that did not remove the line, I'm inclined to disagree with this as an explanation.

 

[Infiniti2000]

If the full-round action takes six seconds before it was fully complete, then a coup-de-grace would not be finished until just before the performer's next turn, allowing it to be interrupted by, for instance, killing the guy performing the CdG. This is not how the system works though. Similarly, if the AC's attack takes six seconds before it was fully complete, then the attack could be interrupted by the unsummoning.

Ask not about the implicit weirdness in the cyclic combat system. Merely accept it and move on.

"A full-round action requires an entire round to complete."

"Each round represents 6 seconds in the game world."