Summoned creatures and being flat-footed

[Zappo]

This question has come up in a recent game. The enemy had summoned a creature, and the creature attacked one of us; the DM said that the victim was denied his Dexterity modifier to AC, because the summoned beast surprised him. So...

Suppose that a creature is summoned during a fight, with the use of a Summon Monster or similar spell. Should other creatures be caught by surprise and flat-footed with respect to this creature? After all, it has suddenly appeared out of nowhere and acts immediately, much like someone who attacks while coming out of invisibility.

Is it even possible to become flat-footed again after a combat is started, or to be flat-footed with respect to some opponents and not others? What if a new enemy actually comes out of invisibility during a combat?

 

[Pyrex]

Rule 0: The DM is always right.

However, the rules are on your side. According to the R.A.W., the only time you are Flat Footed is when combat has started and you haven't had a turn yet. There are many reasons you can be denied your dex mod to AC during combat, but you can only be Flat Footed during the first round.

When attacked by an invisible opponent, you are denied your dex mod to AC and you opponent gets an additional +2 to hit. This is not the same as being Flat Footed.

A summoned creature is not the same as being attacked by an invisible creature. When an invisible creature attacks, it is invisible until *after* the attack connects. When a summoned creature attacks, it is visible *before* the attack begins.

 

[mikebr99]

I'll 2nd what Pyrex said...


Mike

 

[Aaron2]

I'll 2nd what Pyrex said...

Third. Plus I'll add that the Summon spells take an entire round (6 seconds) to work. You can assume there are some strange lights, sounds and swirling mists that notify everyone around of incoming monsters.


Aaron

 

[Philip]

And, realistically, the summoned creature is just as surprised to suddenly appear as its intended target.

By the rules you should not be flatfooted, but I can imagine circumstances where the DM would rule that the summoned creature would achieve an similar affect by suprising you, even if its not strictly by the book. However, I would call for a Spot roll or something similar to give a PC a chance to avoid it.

 

[Hypersmurf]

According to the R.A.W., the only time you are Flat Footed is when combat has started and you haven't had a turn yet. There are many reasons you can be denied your dex mod to AC during combat, but you can only be Flat Footed during the first round.

There are other ways.

There were a couple in 3E - the Flick of the Wrist feat, for example, caused an opponent to be Flat-Footed against an attack made with a certain weapon.

In 3.5, the most obvious is the Balance skill:

Being Attacked while Balancing: You are considered flat-footed while balancing, since you can’t move to avoid a blow, and thus you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any). If you have 5 or more ranks in Balance, you aren’t considered flat-footed while balancing.

-Hyp.

 

[dcollins]

Is it even possible to become flat-footed again after a combat is started, or to be flat-footed with respect to some opponents and not others? What if a new enemy actually comes out of invisibility during a combat?

The short answer is "no" here. However, it's a common mistake for players/DMs. If an attacker is invisible, they get +2 to attack and the defender loses Dex bonus to AC (PHB Table: Attack Roll Modifiers), but they do not actually qualify as being surprised or flat-footed.