Sun Rods are awesome!

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

for once i must agree with this orange dinosaur. Sunrods aren't awesome, they're completely lame, imho. They're so incredibly effective (and relatively light and cheap) that it's like everywhere your party goes is in bright illumination all the time if they're not actively trying to be stealthy. They also make all the other light sources seem pretty pointless. I like it when adventurers carried actual torches and laterns. I know, i know, we're supposed to "lie back and feel the raaaawk!" with 4e, but guys, come on, this and waybread can piss right off. Sunrods don't even make any sense, because to realistically illuminate 100' well, they'd have to be so incredibly bright that they'd be utterly blinding to the people near them.

qft.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

We are?

Sunrods are fine in their current context, especially when you consider a world with magic. Though, it's possible that the 20sq radius is a typo.

CLEARLY I DISAGREE. Gah, do you think I didn't consider the context? Amazingly, I DID! Only on the internet, eh?

They're not fine because:

A) They're trivially expensive from low levels.

B) They make every other light source, including all the ones you, the DM, might be considering in their dungeon, utterly meaningless unless for some inexplicable reason the players choose not to use them, or stealth is being used and no-one has one of these turned on.

C) They DO NOT make any sense even in a magical context and assuming they purely emitted light, because sheer AMOUNT of light even a bloody "magickalelele" world, needed to "brightly illuminate" roughly 100ft will BLIND YOU REAL GOOD if you look at the source, and everyone standing behind the guy with the sunrod would be dealing with horrible after-images and generally the whole thing seems fundamentally ludicrous.

In a magical world, I can see a safe, non-burning, pure-light emitting alternative to a torch. I don't see, however, why it should be AMAZINGLY BRIGHT to the point of being patently ludicrous and making every other light-source pointless. Sunrods should be clean, safe magical alternative to torches (with a similar light radius), generally only used by adventurers due to their cost. Not some sort blinding space-flare which completely removes darkness for 100 feet.

This would also leave some room for other, cooler magical light sources, and make the wizard's floating light not entirely pointless, perhaps.

That's the thing about sunrods. They're not cool. They're not rocking. They're just "Ok let's forget about any lighting rules indoors". And whilst that works for some people, for me, I think the whole "light in the darkness" deal is cool.

If it is a typo and it's meant to be 5 squares or something, then that's cool. I just don't think it's a typo.

 

[catsclaw227]

CLEARLY I DISAGREE. Gah, do you think I didn't consider the context? Amazingly, I DID! Only on the internet, eh?

Yep. Only on the internet. The only reference about your quote was my "We are?" comment, related to what we are supposed to do with 4e.

The rest of my post was directed to the OP, and my opinion of sunrods.

 

[catsclaw227]

C) They DO NOT make any sense even in a magical context and assuming they purely emitted light, because sheer AMOUNT of light even a bloody "magickalelele" world, needed to "brightly illuminate" roughly 100ft will BLIND YOU REAL GOOD if you look at the source, and everyone standing behind the guy with the sunrod would be dealing with horrible after-images and generally the whole thing seems fundamentally ludicrous.

It doesn't make sense by your definition, for sure.

But if they are creating an aura of even light, then it makes sense. In a magickalelele world, light doesn't have to emit from a point, it can simply be an aura.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Yep. Only on the internet. The only reference about your quote was my "We are?" comment, related to what we are supposed to do with 4e.

The rest of my post was directed to the OP, and my opinion of sunrods.

I see. Yes we are. The DMG is quite clear about this. If thine game element bore thee, then pluck it out! The stuff from other books, like the world design book, goes further and make authorial intent in 4E pretty clear - Get rid of anything potentially boring or realistic elements that might slow things down and magic or non-human is automatically cooler than not-magic or human. Sunrods to an admirable job of removing any kind of considerations of fire or smoke (which is cool, I guess), but also remove any meaningful non-magical darkness or shadow (which is less cool), and are ludicrous in the process due to their radius.

It doesn't make sense by your definition, for sure.

But if they are creating an aura of even light, then it makes sense. In a magickalelele world, light doesn't have to emit from a point, it can simply be an aura.

No, that would illuminate a much larger area if it illuminate 100ft well, unless we are talking about something so wildly magical that it evenly emits light particle/waves that somehow fade of existence entirely beyond 100 foot. That would also illuminate things not in the "LoS" of the sunrod and generally seems an incredibly powerful sort of magic.

I'm pretty sure we're just not meant to think about it, because it doesn't make any sense however you do. You also fail to touch on the fact that it invalidates ALL other light sources.

Courtesy of the D&D compendium, here's the actual description, brief though it may be:

Description: This minor magic item sheds bright light to a radius of 20 squares for 4 hours before burning out.

Sheds implies it comes from the object, but who knows. Like I said, this is a turn brain off before using type of item.

 

[Jack99]

I went in the other direction, I banned sunrods in my game.

Why?

They seemed cheezy and out of place. And having a smaller light radius is very good to set the tension in a dungeon crawl.

I agree. I will ban the sunrods in my campaign as well.

 

[catsclaw227]

I see. Yes we are. The DMG is quite clear about this.

I must be dense. I didn't find anything in the DMG that says to "LIE BACK AND FEEL THE RAAAAWK!"

It does imply that we should remove what isn't fun and replace it with something that is. But I imagine that's what we should do anytime we are playing a game with friends in an effort to have... um... fun.

Back to the topic. Even though, IMHO, the sunrod is fine in it's context for the game in general, I believe that the radius of a 4e sunrod is too wide for my game, and I have already altered it to be a Close Burst 5, or an 11x11 square.

 

[Rechan]

If sunrods aren't fun to you, then remove them.

Oh wait, that's the opposite of what you're trying to say the DMG says.

I was a bit shocked at the radius. It definitely needs a retooling.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

If sunrods aren't fun to you, then remove them.

Oh wait, that's the opposite of what you're trying to say the DMG says.

I was a bit shocked at the radius. It definitely needs a retooling.

It actually isn't. What you're pointing out is that what the DMG says can be used to rid ourselves of this foul things. I'm just pointing out what I believe is the authorial intent behind them having the insane radius in the first place.

 

[Staffan]

this and Waybread can piss right off.

Yeah, because the idea of nigh-supernatural food never appeared in traditional fantasy.