D&D 5E Super hype about 5e, all kinds of stuff is popping up but the question is.... how?

[Evenglare]

Alright, so all that about 4e what what I think I have come to understand. 4e not being a part of OGL so material produced was much much more restrictive and all of that. Anyway, back to the topic, it is assumed that wizards hired these people to create stuff for them like Tyranny of Dragons etc etc. The reason this question popped up though is that frog god/necromancer just popped up seemingly out of nowhere and started producing stuff for 5e, and again, my question was how? I think the most explanation may be that wizards higher them or gave them some sort of contract as well, the thing that bugs me about that though is, why didn't wizards announce those products when they announced all the other ones? So the argument of them being hired by wizards seems a bit flimsy to me, so I was curious.

 

[Chaltab]

But all published under the OGL.

The OGL is a license, it doesn't contain any game rules. The d20 SRD was released under the OGL, and contains a huge chunk of the D&D rules language and logic to public use effectively in perpetuity because the OGL has a no-take-backsies clause. That's the reason that WOTC abandoned it for 4th Edition: anything released under it is no longer your exclusive IP, and WOTC did not want people republishing it with a new name and undercutting them, or publishing offensive material with a big proud "D&D 4th Edition compatible!" sticker.

All those retroclone games invoking the OGL are doing so so that they can use the D&D terminology (the six ability scores, saving throws, etc) in order to reproduce the old school game rules (but with different wording where necessary). You COULD in fact reproduce all of the 4th Edition rules in different wording and presentation because rules themselves aren't copyrightable--specific wording is.

3PP licenses are supposed to allow publishers to copy some specific wording, particularly terminology, for the sake of uniformity. That's what the GSL does, but it puts a lot of strictures on it that made many developers uncomfortable.

I actually haven't heard about the license or SRD for D&D Next, so I can't comment on 'how' FGG is able to produce their material (maybe it was released and I just missed that?) but if WOTC is serious about getting 3PPs back on board then they've probably already made that clear to interested 3PPs who didn't support 4th Edition.

IE they may have already shared an SRD and the license for it with 3PPs and just not released it to the general public yet.

 

[mach1.9pants]

The FGG module "The Wizard's Amulet" has the OGL V1.0a on the second to last page and says "This printing is done under version 1.0a of the Open Game License, below." It says FIFTH EDITION COMPATIBLE on the cover.

FGG are "invoking the OGL are doing so so that they can use the D&D terminology (the six ability scores, saving throws, etc) in order to" publish something that can be played using the D&D 5th Edition rules. As I said, not a lawyer, but there it is a 5th Edition compatible product using the OGL.

So I think my proposition is right. Any company can get out there and produce 5E (and 4E, if they should so wish) product s under the OGL. Just don't use trade dress and other copyrightable things (as defined by product identity I guess) and you are fine.

EDIT: same as OSRIC et al are very careful not to say D&D in it's pages FGG has "Necromancer Games is not affiliated with Wizards of the Coast™.
We make no claim to or challenge to any trademarks held by Wizards of the Coast™."

 

[Umbran]

So I think my proposition is right. Any company can get out there and produce 5E (and 4E, if they should so wish) product s under the OGL. Just don't use trade dress and other copyrightable things (as defined by product identity I guess) and you are fine.

To be clear: Any company can use the OGL to get access to terminology. Any terminology used by, say, the d20 SRD becomes available. They would not have to worry about referring to the name "magic missile", for example.

But that doesn't mean you can just take anything from 5e. Backgrounds, for example, were not released under OGL previously. Neither was the 5e "advantage" mechanic. You don't have access to those terms from previous OGL releases, and so would not be able to refer to them as such in your new product.

It is possible to hack together a product that uses only OGL-available terminology that works with 5e. But it isn't easy, and there are a lot of things such products just won't be able to do.

 

[Emerikol]

To be clear: Any company can use the OGL to get access to terminology. Any terminology used by, say, the d20 SRD becomes available. They would not have to worry about referring to the name "magic missile", for example.

But that doesn't mean you can just take anything from 5e. Backgrounds, for example, were not released under OGL previously. Neither was the 5e "advantage" mechanic. You don't have access to those terms from previous OGL releases, and so would not be able to refer to them as such in your new product.

It is possible to hack together a product that uses only OGL-available terminology that works with 5e. But it isn't easy, and there are a lot of things such products just won't be able to do.

I'd say adventures and monsters will be easier but an actual rules book that "replaces" D&D might be harder. The big mistake that Wotc made with the OGL was not tailoring it a little better to the kinds of products they wanted. They never wanted competing games. They wanted adventures, monsters, and supplements. They got a lot of those but they also got new games which they didn't really want I don't think.

 

[Dausuul]

Everyone seems to be warming up to 5e, issues are explained or sorted out. Good stuff. Companies like frog god games have put out some stuff and... wait... what? How are companies putting stuff out? Did I miss a new OGL announcement or something? I'm pretty interested in producing some stuff but I haven't seen any sort of community guidelines / liscensing etc etc. So yeah... did something pass under my radar?

They're using a combination of the original OGL and "fair use" under copyright law. You could do this with 4E, too. KenzerCo's "Kingdoms of Kalamar" didn't even use the OGL, it just slapped "For use with 4th Edition Dungeons and Dragons" on the cover, and that was legal as "nominative use."

However, the OGL was written to protect 3E-compatible material. As soon as you sail outside the OGL's safe harbor, you're entering eel-infested waters. Clark Peterson of Necromancer Games (now merged with Frog God Games) is a judge, and Dave Kenzer of KenzerCo is a lawyer specializing in IP law. If you want to follow their lead, consult a lawyer. Don't try this at home.

 

[Cybit]

They're using a combination of the original OGL and "fair use" under copyright law. You could do this with 4E, too. KenzerCo's "Kingdoms of Kalamar" didn't even use the OGL, it just slapped "For use with 4th Edition Dungeons and Dragons" on the cover, and that was legal as "nominative use."

However, the OGL was written to protect 3E-compatible material. As soon as you sail outside the OGL's safe harbor, you're entering eel-infested waters. Clark Peterson of Necromancer Games (now merged with Frog God Games) is a judge, and Dave Kenzer of KenzerCo is a lawyer specializing in IP law. If you want to follow their lead, consult a lawyer. Don't try this at home.

Lol, talking to Frog God Games at PaizoCon this weekend for about 30+ minutes; it's pretty much the entire "we have lawyers who know what they are doing, we're ready for WotC". That said, I am hoping they will find a good balance between a CCL and OGL in the end.

 

[Dausuul]

Lol, talking to Frog God Games at PaizoCon this weekend for about 30+ minutes; it's pretty much the entire "we have lawyers who know what they are doing, we're ready for WotC". That said, I am hoping they will find a good balance between a CCL and OGL in the end.

Sounds about right. If I were setting out to create unauthorized 5E material, I would go through the following steps:

1. Educate myself as much as possible on the relevant law.
2. Write up a plan for my unauthorized 5E product. Try to stay within the law as I understand it.
3. CONSULT A LAWYER who knows IP law, ideally one who is familiar with the OGL/SRD (there are some on these forums). Go over my plan with said lawyer, and revise it till the lawyer says it's good.
4. Following the revised plan, create my unauthorized 5E product.
5. CONSULT THE LAWYER AGAIN. Check that I didn't make any mistakes, and go over what to do in the event of a C&D or a lawsuit.
6. Publish and brace for impact. Just because you're legally in the right doesn't mean you won't get sued.

Steps 3 and 5 are not optional. And they're gonna cost some money. But not nearly as much as getting your butt sued off by Hasbro.

 

[thalmin]

They're using a combination of the original OGL and "fair use" under copyright law. You could do this with 4E, too. KenzerCo's "Kingdoms of Kalamar" didn't even use the OGL, it just slapped "For use with 4th Edition Dungeons and Dragons" on the cover, and that was legal as "nominative use."

It was my understanding that KenzerCo actually obtained a license from Wizards.

EDIT: Ooops. I was thinking of 3E

 

[LFK]

The idea is:

"We" (not actually me) published X under the OGL back in the day.

OGL covers derivative products.

5e is similar enough to 3e in format that taking X and tweaking the math/specific effects creates things that are technically 5e compatible.

Therefore tweaking X is creating a derivative product of our own derivative product (thus covered) and the similarity of the basic format allows the final product to be 5e compatible, even if it's technically a product for 3e's OGL.

Additionally "5th Edition" is not the official title of the new edition, the title is "Dungeons and Dragons" and 5th edition is simply a reference point when clarity is necessary, thus "5th edition compatible" is not a protected term.

1) Nothing in the OGL prevented you from putting variant monsters in your adventure, so filling the dungeon with goblins that happen to have the same stats as 5e goblins, or even just saying "goblin" and making the DM look it up, gets by.

2) The spell format is nearly identical, there's just some specific math and logic that needs to be adjusted to match 5e, such as adding Concentration or Ritual flags, which squeaks by because you can take the 5e rules, reword them to do the same thing but not plagiarize the 5e PHB, and present it as a 3e variant that just happens to be 5e compatible.

That's why the first round of supplements are spells and adventures.