Superhero Systems Needed

[Dausuul]

I am currently running an Aberrant campaign. If you don't know Aberrant, it's White Wolf's take on the superhero genre. Fantastic setting, all sorts of factions and politics and interesting NPCs... and an absolutely abysmal game system; "clunky" does not begin to describe it. So, I'm thinking about keeping the campaign but switching to a more functional system. Two names I've seen pop up a lot over the last couple of years are Savage Worlds (which apparently has a superhero expansion book), and Mutants & Masterminds.

Savage Worlds looks quite interesting to me, but I gather it's not really geared for superheroics. Can anyone familiar with the superpowers book confirm or deny?

Mutants & Masterminds is, of course, a dedicated superhero game. However, just at a glance, it looks like it has a lot of D&D 3E in its genetic code. If I'm the type of GM who detests 3E and never wants to run it again (way too much bookkeeping and number-crunching), how am I likely to feel about M&M?

Any other system suggestions are welcome, too!

 

[Eccles]

I think you'll get an awful lot of recommendations for Mutants and Masterminds, though I'm not that comfortable with it.

Though it's out of print these days then the DC Heroes system (later reprinted as 'Blood of Heroes') is still my favourite for insanely straightforward really-well scaled supers stuff...

 

[Dausuul]

I think you'll get an awful lot of recommendations for Mutants and Masterminds, though I'm not that comfortable with it.

What makes you uncomfortable about it?

Though it's out of print these days then the DC Heroes system (later reprinted as 'Blood of Heroes') is still my favourite for insanely straightforward really-well scaled supers stuff...

Thanks! I'll check it out.

 

[billd91]

One of the things you may face in superhero RPGs is a bit of book keeping - at least with respect to generating characters. Many are either based on a point system (like Champions or Mutants and Masterminds) or rely on some number crunching in character generation (Villains and Vigilantes). Champions and M&M do this, in part, to make it possible to balance power options against each other as well as provide the ability to model subtle differences in superhero powers.

Once in play, however, Mutants and Masterminds isn't particularly number crunchy unless a character has variable powers (which it sounds like you'd want to avoid anyway). Champions remains pretty number crunchy. And most superhero games include at least some ablative stats like V&V's hit points and power scores, Champions' body, stun, and endurance, Marvel Superheroes' health and karma, and so on.

So I guess a lot depends on what sorts of number crunching you want to avoid.

I would also suggest you not prejudge M&M because it's an OGL game. There are big differences between M&M and D&D.

 

[Crothian]

I think if you've been running Abberant then M&M 3e won't have more book keeping for you. It's just different book keeping.

 

[Celebrim]

I'll join the likely chorus on M&M.

My only problem with it is that I think that Super Speed is underpriced, and indeed that superspeed is simply inherently problimatic in play. I don't think this is a problem with the system, but a problem inherent with the concept of superspeed and probably extends to all systems.

As far as number crunchy goes, M&M is much crunchier than D&D during character creation, but tends to be much less fussy in play. I suppose you could create characters that would tend to be very fussy to play (shape-shifters and mimics of various sorts), but for the most part the game encourages you to get most of the calculation out of the way during character creation. My suggestion would be to run M&M but put some restrictions on character creation.

But, if you really really hate number crunchy, I think you are going to have a hard time enjoying any Supers system. The less crunchy sort aren't going to capture the feel, and the more crunchy sort will bug you.

 

[Kannik]

I can put in a word about Champions/HERO system, for I've gamed in it many a time and enjoyed myself a-plenty. It's very flexible and a great example of an effects-based system. As for how it runs (is it "clunky") I think it's very group dependent. I've played in games where it's very smooth in play, and in games where it was slow in play. Most of the math takes place during char creation, and there's a bit of math in determining the to-hit number.

And, of course, the math from tallying up 12d6 energy blasts. But that's part of the fun too! (who doesn't like throwing buckets and buckets of dice?)

gamingly,

Kannik

 

[Dausuul]

As far as number crunchy goes, M&M is much crunchier than D&D during character creation, but tends to be much less fussy in play. I suppose you could create characters that would tend to be very fussy to play (shape-shifters and mimics of various sorts), but for the most part the game encourages you to get most of the calculation out of the way during character creation. My suggestion would be to run M&M but put some restrictions on character creation.

I can handle crunchy chargen; that's what spreadsheets are for. Besides, I'm the GM. I'm not making player characters, just NPCs. If I can whip up an NPC fast when I need one, that's good enough for me.

And I don't mind doing a little math in play. What I don't want is a lot of fiddly little modifiers flying around, or re-calculating derived attributes on the fly. For example, if you get hit with Strength damage in 3E, you have to go around adjusting your attack bonus, your damage, encumbrance, etc. This is a Nuisance. Likewise, I don't want to be tracking "five rounds left on this effect, two rounds left on that one, has the debuff worn off yet?"

(I'm sure M&M is a better system than Aberrant, but that's like saying something is colder than the surface of Venus.)

 

[FunkBGR]

You already own a lot of d10s?

Try the One Roll Engine.

Wild Talents, by Arc Dream Publishing, is the generic superhero rules, but they have a couple of settings too if that's your bag. It has some crunch to it, and goes *quick* for figuring out how turns resolve.

Link to an overview of it. Plus, the base book can be had for $10 for a small digest sized book, or there's a Kindle Edition on Amazon, or the pdf or the nice shiny hardcover (which is worth it too).

 

[Eccles]

What makes you uncomfortable about it?

I'm really not too sure. I think it was just too ... messy. Power levels, the super-speed mentioned above, seemed to be difficult to make a character without a 9 page spreadsheet. And a certain lack of flexibility in changing the character.

I may've been spoiled by a system which only uses 2d10 and a table which only the DM needs to understand...

I have to confess that we didn't play it for a huge length of time, so I might not be giving it fair crack of the whip. Also, I really love DC Heroes and may just be plain biased...