Superheroes of The Trust OOC Thread (Accepting Alts)
- Thread starter DM_Matt
- Start date
1. They are showing remorse...and they will show it more. Mr. Black, as you will find out, is the Chief Tactical Officer of the Trust, and a former Ranger. He heads up security and whatnot, and his personality is such that he's going to be more jaded about these things that pretty much anyone else there. The Trust employs lots of Superheroes. He's not really one of them. Ms. White, otoh, IS really upset about it, and I can show her and others making a bigger deal about it if that helps.
-- That probably would help some...it would at least suggest that they care about the lives wasted in their tests.
2. They did not know about the other two supers, and because they did not know about the technopath. they did not know that passing aircraft would be at risk.
-- But they knew about the others. And they knew about us. Part of what I'm getting at is that it's exactly because of these unknown factors that tests are NOT done like this. Any group that valued life would take all precautions they could...test or otherwise...to see to it that any risk that was present was as contained and manageable as possible -before throwing anyone into it-. To do otherwise suggests criminal negligence. If they can't control the situation, then they needed to relocate the test to a situation they could control.
3. "Just" drug smugglers. You'll see. What you broke up was worse than it looked.
-- What they were doing there doesn't change any of the substance of my observations. If it was so important that these people be stopped, it could have been a first official assignment, and us sent in under conditions as optimal as they could make.
4. The resources the Trust provides and the urgency of the leads that come from what you guys gathered may prove enough to work with them, even reluctantly. Thess will also have the added incentive of learning from a much more experienced white witch (...and how bad could she possibly be if she can channel so much white magic)
-- Their resources clearly weren't useful in the "test." And the urgency might lead us to work together, but why include the Trust? As for learning magic...there might be temptation, but I don't know if it would be enough. She's come this far on her own after all. And Ms White might be a shiny-good-great person...that doesn't make the Trust a good employer.
I feel a need to explain here. Because now I am afraid it's going to look like I'm just being obstructionist. I'm really not. I just don't think the core problems have been addressed...except perhaps the remorse thing, which really isn't the main problem. Seriously though. Put yourself in the shoes of these characters. They left their living rooms, got in a van, and under false pretenses were thrown unprepared into a potentially lethal situation where they were shot, burned, exposed to toxins, blown up, smashed, smacked, beaten into a bloody mess in some cases...and now...hey! It was a test! Yay, you passed!
How can we not break our #2 pencils and tell them what to go do with their damn test? Because not only were we put through hell, and under artificially bad conditions...ie not only did the Trust not try to make a hard situation any easier, they actually went out of their way to make it more difficult...but we were put through hell -on purpose-. And the thought that a boat full of additional supers, men with super-killing weapons, and high explosives could come onto the scene without the Trust knowing it doesn't really help much. Sort of like a certain Presidency (which shall remain nameless to conform with posting guidelines ) the question becomes...are you evil, or just incompetent?
------
But that's just a rehash of points already made. I turn instead to possible solutions.
1) THE MOLE: Turns out someone in The Trust can't be trusted. They heard about a batch of new recruits and threw a few monkeywrenches into the game. Only problem is...we lived. When the contacts we were supposed to meet hear about what happened in detail, they'll realize that the training program we were supposed to have encountered was something entirely different and more deadly. Tracking down and finding this mole could become a mission later on.
2) THE PURGE: The Trust is split within by internal factions...ex-special forces paramilitary types that formed the program in the first place, and a newer crop of supers who have gradually been asserting more power. The scandal this recruiting technique causes within the group provides the newer faction with the power it needs to start some major housecleaning, starting with the ones in charge of recruiting. These purged individuals might then form their own group of highly trained, highly equipped nonsupers that have a deep rivalry with the new Trust, and chips on their shoulders.
3) THE HEEL-CLICK: This was a Matrix-like brain sim/magical collective hallucination or something. Retcon ensues. Kind of icky, but it gets the job done, and no hard feelings.
4) THE WILD REBELS: (crunchy, chewy rebels) In what would probably be a 360 degree departure from everything you have planned, the PC's decide not to go with the Trust, but still team up. Requires a change in title. Probably negates anywhere from 1/2 to 3/4's of the reason you wanted to run this game in the first place. Least attractive option.
Open to other ideas too! This is just to get us started.
-- That probably would help some...it would at least suggest that they care about the lives wasted in their tests.
2. They did not know about the other two supers, and because they did not know about the technopath. they did not know that passing aircraft would be at risk.
-- But they knew about the others. And they knew about us. Part of what I'm getting at is that it's exactly because of these unknown factors that tests are NOT done like this. Any group that valued life would take all precautions they could...test or otherwise...to see to it that any risk that was present was as contained and manageable as possible -before throwing anyone into it-. To do otherwise suggests criminal negligence. If they can't control the situation, then they needed to relocate the test to a situation they could control.
3. "Just" drug smugglers. You'll see. What you broke up was worse than it looked.
-- What they were doing there doesn't change any of the substance of my observations. If it was so important that these people be stopped, it could have been a first official assignment, and us sent in under conditions as optimal as they could make.
4. The resources the Trust provides and the urgency of the leads that come from what you guys gathered may prove enough to work with them, even reluctantly. Thess will also have the added incentive of learning from a much more experienced white witch (...and how bad could she possibly be if she can channel so much white magic)
-- Their resources clearly weren't useful in the "test."
And the urgency might lead us to work together, but why include the Trust? As for learning magic...there might be temptation, but I don't know if it would be enough. She's come this far on her own after all. And Ms White might be a shiny-good-great person...that doesn't make the Trust a good employer.I feel a need to explain here. Because now I am afraid it's going to look like I'm just being obstructionist. I'm really not. I just don't think the core problems have been addressed...except perhaps the remorse thing, which really isn't the main problem. Seriously though. Put yourself in the shoes of these characters. They left their living rooms, got in a van, and under false pretenses were thrown unprepared into a potentially lethal situation where they were shot, burned, exposed to toxins, blown up, smashed, smacked, beaten into a bloody mess in some cases...and now...hey! It was a test! Yay, you passed!
How can we not break our #2 pencils and tell them what to go do with their damn test?
Because not only were we put through hell, and under artificially bad conditions...ie not only did the Trust not try to make a hard situation any easier, they actually went out of their way to make it more difficult...but we were put through hell -on purpose-. And the thought that a boat full of additional supers, men with super-killing weapons, and high explosives could come onto the scene without the Trust knowing it doesn't really help much. Sort of like a certain Presidency (which shall remain nameless to conform with posting guidelines ) the question becomes...are you evil, or just incompetent? ------
But that's just a rehash of points already made. I turn instead to possible solutions.
1) THE MOLE: Turns out someone in The Trust can't be trusted. They heard about a batch of new recruits and threw a few monkeywrenches into the game. Only problem is...we lived. When the contacts we were supposed to meet hear about what happened in detail, they'll realize that the training program we were supposed to have encountered was something entirely different and more deadly. Tracking down and finding this mole could become a mission later on.
2) THE PURGE: The Trust is split within by internal factions...ex-special forces paramilitary types that formed the program in the first place, and a newer crop of supers who have gradually been asserting more power. The scandal this recruiting technique causes within the group provides the newer faction with the power it needs to start some major housecleaning, starting with the ones in charge of recruiting. These purged individuals might then form their own group of highly trained, highly equipped nonsupers that have a deep rivalry with the new Trust, and chips on their shoulders.
3) THE HEEL-CLICK: This was a Matrix-like brain sim/magical collective hallucination or something. Retcon ensues. Kind of icky, but it gets the job done, and no hard feelings.
4) THE WILD REBELS: (crunchy, chewy rebels) In what would probably be a 360 degree departure from everything you have planned, the PC's decide not to go with the Trust, but still team up. Requires a change in title. Probably negates anywhere from 1/2 to 3/4's of the reason you wanted to run this game in the first place. Least attractive option.
Open to other ideas too! This is just to get us started.
DM_Matt
First Post
Shayuri said:1. They are showing remorse...and they will show it more. Mr. Black, as you will find out, is the Chief Tactical Officer of the Trust, and a former Ranger. He heads up security and whatnot, and his personality is such that he's going to be more jaded about these things that pretty much anyone else there. The Trust employs lots of Superheroes. He's not really one of them. Ms. White, otoh, IS really upset about it, and I can show her and others making a bigger deal about it if that helps.
-- That probably would help some...it would at least suggest that they care about the lives wasted in their tests.
2. They did not know about the other two supers, and because they did not know about the technopath. they did not know that passing aircraft would be at risk.
-- But they knew about the others. And they knew about us. Part of what I'm getting at is that it's exactly because of these unknown factors that tests are NOT done like this. Any group that valued life would take all precautions they could...test or otherwise...to see to it that any risk that was present was as contained and manageable as possible -before throwing anyone into it-. To do otherwise suggests criminal negligence. If they can't control the situation, then they needed to relocate the test to a situation they could control.
3. "Just" drug smugglers. You'll see. What you broke up was worse than it looked.
-- What they were doing there doesn't change any of the substance of my observations. If it was so important that these people be stopped, it could have been a first official assignment, and us sent in under conditions as optimal as they could make.
4. The resources the Trust provides and the urgency of the leads that come from what you guys gathered may prove enough to work with them, even reluctantly. Thess will also have the added incentive of learning from a much more experienced white witch (...and how bad could she possibly be if she can channel so much white magic)
-- Their resources clearly weren't useful in the "test."
I feel a need to explain here. Because now I am afraid it's going to look like I'm just being obstructionist. I'm really not. I just don't think the core problems have been addressed...except perhaps the remorse thing, which really isn't the main problem. Seriously though. Put yourself in the shoes of these characters. They left their living rooms, got in a van, and under false pretenses were thrown unprepared into a potentially lethal situation where they were shot, burned, exposed to toxins, blown up, smashed, smacked, beaten into a bloody mess in some cases...and now...hey! It was a test! Yay, you passed!
How can we not break our #2 pencils and tell them what to go do with their damn test?
------
But that's just a rehash of points already made. I turn instead to possible solutions.
1) THE MOLE: Turns out someone in The Trust can't be trusted. They heard about a batch of new recruits and threw a few monkeywrenches into the game. Only problem is...we lived. When the contacts we were supposed to meet hear about what happened in detail, they'll realize that the training program we were supposed to have encountered was something entirely different and more deadly. Tracking down and finding this mole could become a mission later on.
2) THE PURGE: The Trust is split within by internal factions...ex-special forces paramilitary types that formed the program in the first place, and a newer crop of supers who have gradually been asserting more power. The scandal this recruiting technique causes within the group provides the newer faction with the power it needs to start some major housecleaning, starting with the ones in charge of recruiting. These purged individuals might then form their own group of highly trained, highly equipped nonsupers that have a deep rivalry with the new Trust, and chips on their shoulders.
3) THE HEEL-CLICK: This was a Matrix-like brain sim/magical collective hallucination or something. Retcon ensues. Kind of icky, but it gets the job done, and no hard feelings.
4) THE WILD REBELS: (crunchy, chewy rebels) In what would probably be a 360 degree departure from everything you have planned, the PC's decide not to go with the Trust, but still team up. Requires a change in title. Probably negates anywhere from 1/2 to 3/4's of the reason you wanted to run this game in the first place. Least attractive option.
Open to other ideas too! This is just to get us started.
Well, if one, two, or anything like that were true, Thess wouldn't know for a while, and it would probably unfun if I set up such a mystery (and maybe I already have...) and told you ahead of time. As you may have noticed, Ms. White promised an investigation to figure out who screwed this up so badly.
Regarding the resources, they have yet to make their pitch or show what they have, even though they certainly did drop the ball with regard to the other two supers.
One more defense of their actions, btw, these were not just any random person plucked out of their homes to risk death and get beat up -- these were superheroes, or at least budding ones. Such risks tend to come with the territory in that profession.
The major issue is getting Thess to stick around in the short term, as the long term will probably get worked out one way or another.
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DM_Matt said:
Well, if something went wrong, they could know it went wrong at the outset... Then they'd at least be able to say, "This is is all wrong, none of this was planned...how could this be?!" Etc etc. As opposed to, ya know, saying of Spirit (paraphrased, of course
), "Well, it's her own fault she's dead, nyah!" And yes, superheroing is dangerous...but when a superhero takes a risk, she does so of her own free will. By lying to us about what was coming, they robbed us of the chance to exercise that free will. Imagine saying to a cop, "Hey, I'm gonna drive you to meet my wife." Then you pull up to a drug factory and say, "She's in there! Go say hi!" If the cop makes it back out, I don't think, "Well, you're a cop...it's a risky job," would really be considered a good excuse.
I dunno...does it seem like my issues are unreasonable? Am I just being cranky because it's late? Lemme sleep on it. I'm sure having Thess stay in the short term won't be too big a problem...
Shayuri, I agree with all of your IC points. In my opinion, going with Rebels Not of the Trust is the most likely IC option at this point.
If Spirit hadn't died, things would be going better IC, imo, but it wasn't to be. Matt, you really could have avoided killing her (she turns Insubstantial right before they can kill her and manages to slip away... then she's understandably pissed off and decides not to join the trust). Then we're maybe a little more forgiving since no one has died.
I do have a potential solution, though, but I'd rather propose it OOC first because I don't want to wreck anything if this can't work IC.
Nitro says that he's not working with people who got Spirit killed as it is, and gives them an ultimatum that they catch Spirit's killers (the two supers) within 2 weeks. Nitro can easily stay the contact point for the rest of the group, since he doesn't have a secret ID. The PCs will meet at the Coliseum in the same lot in two weeks if the Trust hasn't caught those guys- and then they'll talk about forming their own group.
Since Matt can make things happen behind the scenes, the Trust can indeed fulfill this and bring those guys to justice. Now the problem with this is that it might close a huge line of the plot that we were supposed to do ourselves- but I'm sure those guys can get out of jail at some point.
If Spirit hadn't died, things would be going better IC, imo, but it wasn't to be. Matt, you really could have avoided killing her (she turns Insubstantial right before they can kill her and manages to slip away... then she's understandably pissed off and decides not to join the trust). Then we're maybe a little more forgiving since no one has died.
I do have a potential solution, though, but I'd rather propose it OOC first because I don't want to wreck anything if this can't work IC.
Nitro says that he's not working with people who got Spirit killed as it is, and gives them an ultimatum that they catch Spirit's killers (the two supers) within 2 weeks. Nitro can easily stay the contact point for the rest of the group, since he doesn't have a secret ID. The PCs will meet at the Coliseum in the same lot in two weeks if the Trust hasn't caught those guys- and then they'll talk about forming their own group.
Since Matt can make things happen behind the scenes, the Trust can indeed fulfill this and bring those guys to justice. Now the problem with this is that it might close a huge line of the plot that we were supposed to do ourselves- but I'm sure those guys can get out of jail at some point.
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Fenris2
First Post
FWIW Angel could go with 1,2 or 4 of Shayuri's the proposed solutions as well as the rebel group idea Notro proposed...
I really agree that they dropped the ball big time on this whole test thing. I mean they could have had the van go to a super holotank and we would have done the whole thing dry run probably none the wiser.
In Angels HO on Spirit? She did it to herself, so he has no real qualms about that, however unfortunately it went. Now if we had had no warning at all, and the bad guys cakked her... Then yeah, he would be totally pissed at them. lol
Currently Angel is on the fence about the whole thing... Their methodology and morality is highly suspect.
I really agree that they dropped the ball big time on this whole test thing. I mean they could have had the van go to a super holotank and we would have done the whole thing dry run probably none the wiser.
In Angels HO on Spirit? She did it to herself, so he has no real qualms about that, however unfortunately it went. Now if we had had no warning at all, and the bad guys cakked her... Then yeah, he would be totally pissed at them. lol
Currently Angel is on the fence about the whole thing... Their methodology and morality is highly suspect.
Jemal
Adventurer
Optic would agree with most of Shayuri's points, though he's more likely to agree with Angel on the Spirit front.. It was a reckless, unnecessary death, and while there are certain things that COULD have been done to help them be more informed, Optic doubts the Trust could've know that they had a Super capable of blasting Incorporeal. And without that information, Spirit still would have left.
IC, it makes the most sense for Optic to get pissed at them for not telling us everything up-front, and maybe even try to take the team (the other PC's) and form his OWN super-group, but OOC I realize that may be counter-productive to the GM's plans for the campaign, and that sticking with them in the long run will probably work out to the best.
Matt, I just want to ask you seriously, b/c it seems like several of us are considering it..
Would forming our own group seperate from the Trust be a problem for you as a GM? B/c I'm willing to (and confident I can) come up with a way for Optic to convince the group to work with the Trust IC if it's for the best of the Campaign.
*EDIT* : On thinking, perhaps a "trial" period would be in order.. We'll work with them as follows : WE are in charge of ourselves, and just take the intel they give and decide what to do for ourselves. If after a couple missions we're confident that they're not gonna screw up again, we may join in with their group fully.
(Although the whole "Called together by an organization to form a super group.. the organization messes up and we decide to band together on our own" storyline IS appealing.. I think I saw that in a show/comic once...
IC, it makes the most sense for Optic to get pissed at them for not telling us everything up-front, and maybe even try to take the team (the other PC's) and form his OWN super-group, but OOC I realize that may be counter-productive to the GM's plans for the campaign, and that sticking with them in the long run will probably work out to the best.
Matt, I just want to ask you seriously, b/c it seems like several of us are considering it..
Would forming our own group seperate from the Trust be a problem for you as a GM? B/c I'm willing to (and confident I can) come up with a way for Optic to convince the group to work with the Trust IC if it's for the best of the Campaign.
*EDIT* : On thinking, perhaps a "trial" period would be in order.. We'll work with them as follows : WE are in charge of ourselves, and just take the intel they give and decide what to do for ourselves. If after a couple missions we're confident that they're not gonna screw up again, we may join in with their group fully.
(Although the whole "Called together by an organization to form a super group.. the organization messes up and we decide to band together on our own" storyline IS appealing.. I think I saw that in a show/comic once...
DM_Matt
First Post
The "group that works with/coordinates the good guys that the good guys don't fully trust" thing is a pretty common storyline. If its OK with you guys, I'd like to try to make the "trial" thing work, at least to an extent. Giving the group a chance while being very skeptical will work out for you guys in the long run. They haven't made their real pitch yet, and you don't know how much autonomy they were planning on giving you anyway.
Additionally, if it would help a lot, Sprit's death can be retconned, or the Trust could possess, and use, a limited-use resurrection device. Perhaps since she isnot humanbut made of some strange morphic material associated with her powers, they can figure outa way to "repair"her. Catching those two in two weeks will not necessarily work, though.
Additionally, if it would help a lot, Sprit's death can be retconned, or the Trust could possess, and use, a limited-use resurrection device. Perhaps since she isnot humanbut made of some strange morphic material associated with her powers, they can figure outa way to "repair"her. Catching those two in two weeks will not necessarily work, though.
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Jemal
Adventurer
I wouldn't suggest undoing the death. It makes for a really good storyline if you ask me!
I personally think we can do the Trial thing, and will be trying to calm characters down IC (In my bid for Leadership.. MUAHAHA). Basically it'll boil down to "If we don't at least get SOMETHING from these guys then she died for nothing. Lets see what they give us."
I personally think we can do the Trial thing, and will be trying to calm characters down IC (In my bid for Leadership.. MUAHAHA). Basically it'll boil down to "If we don't at least get SOMETHING from these guys then she died for nothing. Lets see what they give us."
DM_Matt
First Post
A reiteration of what I edited in the start of it too late:
Perhaps since she is not human but made of some strange morphic material associated with her powers, they can figure outa way to "repair"her. At least they can start trying, such that the story will likely pass this part on before it is clear wether or not they will succeed.
Perhaps since she is not human but made of some strange morphic material associated with her powers, they can figure outa way to "repair"her. At least they can start trying, such that the story will likely pass this part on before it is clear wether or not they will succeed.
