Surprise, Initiative, and Encounter Distance

[Stalker0]

No, you couldn't hold an action for an invisible enemy to appear while you walk through a dungeon. You're already taking an action -- you're moving.

Readied actions are only standard ones though, so you could ready an action and move.

 

[LokiDR]

I am going to start to get technical. If this is a problem, reply and tell me to stop.

DMG, pg 60: Encounters start in one of 3 ways: one side is aware of the other, both sides become aware of each other at the same time, or some members of one and/or the other group become aware of the other group. If only some of the combatants are aware, those get a partial action. If there are several rounds to prepare, the aware group can take full actions. "If both sides are aware at the same time and can interact, both should roll initive and resolve actions normally"

DMG, 64, col 1 second paragraph, first sentance: "Don't allow the players to use the ready action out of combat."

Ready is a standard action, so you can move around and still ready action. You can only do this during combat. You can only start combat in an encounter. An encounter only starts when you become aware of the the other group. Ergo, no ready action to shoot what is on the other side of the door.

If you don't like this argument, we can discuss ready action itself, and how it can only be triggered by an enemy action. Since that is off topic, I will refrain.

 

[Stalker0]

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DMG, 64, col 1 second paragraph, first sentance: "Don't allow the players to use the ready action out of combat."

Ready is a standard action, so you can move around and still ready action. You can only do this during combat. You can only start combat in an encounter. An encounter only starts when you become aware of the the other group. Ergo, no ready action to shoot what is on the other side of the door.
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Yet in that very same column it gives an example of a readied action as "I shoot the first enemy that comes through the door".

I agree that you can't just ready an action to shoot someone all the time, you have to have a good reason. But if you picked up on a listen or spot check and happened to see something that you could consider hostile, then I say that counts as an encounter that would allow you start preparing for combat.

 

[LokiDR]

Yet in that very same column it gives an example of a readied action as "I shoot the first enemy that comes through the door".

I agree that you can't just ready an action to shoot someone all the time, you have to have a good reason. But if you picked up on a listen or spot check and happened to see something that you could consider hostile, then I say that counts as an encounter that would allow you start preparing for combat.

Dungeon Master's Guide

Don't allow players to use the ready action outside of combat. While the above examples are all acceptable in the middle of an encounter, a player cannot use the ready action to cover a door with his crossbow outside of combat. It's okay for a player to state that he's covering the door, but what that means is that if something comes through the door he's unlikely to caught unaware. If the character coming through the door wasn't aware of him, he gets a free partial action because he surprised the other character, and so cna shoot the weapon. Otherwise, he still needs to roll initiative for his character normally.

Emphasis mine. I hope that clears up the rules position.

 

[Stalker0]

Emphasis mine. I hope that clears up the rules position.

Alright, Alright, I give

Although what the DMG described is much better than a readied action. I still get the partial, and possibly another action if I roll intiative well.

 

[Mercule]

Although what the DMG described is much better than a readied action. I still get the partial, and possibly another action if I roll intiative well.

I guess it falls under the category of "don't walk into a potentially hostile situation with your head up your... mule".

 

[Tobold Hornblower]

Hmmm, I'd start combat rounds earlier than others have suggested, and that eliminates many of the problems presented above.

"You hear a distant noise, and smell a foul odor. Roll initiative."

Combat begins and the trogs are waiting in ambush with readied actions.

Then everyone delays until the torch bearers action.

Torch bearer goes ahead one movement--either in full-defense mode or in fight-defensively mode with a readied action to attack any threats coming out of the darkness.

Other party members then advance along behind the Torch Bearer, taking stealthy double moves at half speed. I roll hide and move silently for each of them.

Repeat the moves above until the ambush is sprung.

So combat has been going for several rounds before blows are struck. No party members are flat-footed as the trogs missed the opposed silent/listen checks that started the combat. Trogs are not flat-footed against the torch bearer. Trogs may be flat-footed against any of the trailing party members who won the opposed move silently/listen and/or hide/spot checks.

 

[Darklone]

Hmm. What is the problem with walking around in Full Defense mode anyway? Dodge bonus is lost cause you are flatfooted anyway.

 

[Stalker0]

Hmm. What is the problem with walking around in Full Defense mode anyway? Dodge bonus is lost cause you are flatfooted anyway.

Normally your right, but rogues have uncanny dodge, which means they would have a +4 to AC all the time!!

 

[Mercule]

Normally your right, but rogues have uncanny dodge, which means they would have a +4 to AC all the time!!

*evil grin*

Actually, my high Tumble skill gives me +6 on a full defense. Add in a couple more levels of Thief-Acrobat, and it will be +8. There's a reason I'm the decoy.