D&D 5E Surprise!

[Droogie]

• Any character or monster that doesn’t notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter.

This tells us what happens when the passive skill of the creatures not trying to be sneaky are compared to the sneaky characters skill result. This also seems to indicate you have to notice ALL the threats in the encounter, if there is three groups and your passive is high enough to notice only two of them you are still surprised at the start of combat.

Since the party noticed 2 out of the 3 groups of enemies, I'd rule that the party is alerted enough to not suffer the surprised condition. I would, however, allow the enemies still hidden to attack with advantage.

 

[Athinar]

If the Surprise Victim beats you in initiative after being surprised then they are not surprised. it is in the Player's handbook and stupid too boot

 

[Paraxis]

Since the party noticed 2 out of the 3 groups of enemies, I'd rule that the party is alerted enough to not suffer the surprised condition. I would, however, allow the enemies still hidden to attack with advantage.

Actually it seems the intended rule is if they notice any of the possible threats they are not surprised. So if you have three groups of enemies trying to surprise you all you have to do is notice one of them to not be surprised.

http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/01/26/surprise-threats/

 

[Paraxis]

If the Surprise Victim beats you in initiative after being surprised then they are not surprised. it is in the Player's handbook and stupid too boot

They are surprised, just for only their first turn. http://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/10/08/how-long-surprise-last/

So rogue and fighter surprise a goblin and bugbear.

Init 19 - bugbear goes, he can take no actions and can not move, at end of turn is no longer surprised.
Init 17 - fighter goes, moves past goblin who cant take reactions, and attacks bugbear.
Init 15- goblin goes, can take no actions and not move, no longer surprised at end of turn.
Init 9 - rogue goes, he should have rolled higher on initiative as no one is surprised any more.

 

[SkidAce]

Oh snap, I would have totally got this wrong! SO you can still take a bonus action that is really neat. Its not a 3.5 Surprise round its a surprised character

Yes, took my folks a couple of times to change their paradigm.

No surprise round...the surprised character (one, none, or many) is losing a turn. (reactions available after their lost turn).

It was a classic light bulb moment.

 

[Dausuul]

1. AMBUSH. Character makes Dex (Stealth) check to hide behind tree and wait for monster.
2. FOREST SNEAK. Character makes Dex (Stealth) check to sneak through forest and approach monster.
3. CROWD SNEAK. Character makes Dex (Stealth) check to blend with crowd and approach enemy.
4. CROWD BLEND. Character makes Cha (Deception) check to blend with crowd and approach enemy.
5. ANONYMOUS DISGUISE. Character makes Cha (Deception) check to disguise himself as a generic harmless NPC (commoner, laborer, guard, anything the target wouldn't normally consider a threat), then attacks target when he is in range.
6. SPECIFIC DISGUISE. Character makes Cha (Deception) check to disguise himself as an NPC that's trusted by the target (specific person), then attacks target when he is in range.

I'd grant surprise for all of these, assuming successful checks. Some of the checks (e.g., #1) would be made with advantage.

7. SPELL DISGUISE. As 5 or 6 above, but using Disguise Self spell. No Dex or other check is made--just the Disguise Self spell (assume the target does not use its action to inspect the character).
8. BETRAYAL (aka, THE RED WEDDING). Character suddenly, and without provocation, attacks the well-known trusted ally sitting beside him at dinner (or during some other calm, noncombat situation). No Dex or other check is made.
9. ASSASSIN'S CREED. Character calmly strolls down crowded street toward target, with no visible weapons displayed, and suddenly attacks when in range. No Dex or other check is made.
10. SANDMAN. Character approaches and stabs sleeping target. No Dex or other check is made.

Against a competent warrior or adventurer, I would call for Stealth or Deception checks with advantage: Deception with advantage in #7-9, Stealth with advantage in #10. If you fail in #7-9, you do something that puts the target's guard up a moment before you strike (it's not the easiest thing in the world to casually stroll up to people knowing you intend to murder them). The target probably won't strike the first blow, but might Defend or Ready. If you fail in #10, you make noise and wake the target.

Against a noncombatant, I'm not even going to bother playing out the battle. Yes, you butcher the elderly nobleman standing by himself in the garden. He does not put up a fight. Well done. Now, what are you doing with the body?

11. INVISIBLE MAN. Character is invisible and standing still, and attacks when target gets within range. No Dex or other check is made.
12. POOF. Character scries target, teleports to target and attacks. No Dex or other check is made.

Surprise without a check. In #12, the caster of the teleportation spell uses his or her first round to cast the spell, so the benefits of surprise are mostly lost for that character. If s/he brought passengers along, however, the passengers get to attack with surprise.

13. POOF 2. Character is sorcerer, in a crowded city street, and uses Subtle Spell to conjure monsters adjacent to target (without somatic or verbal components). No Dex or other check is made.

Deception with advantage. Again, it's about concealing your intent.

14. PIT. Character falls through hidden pit trap into pit of skeletons, who've all been set to stare upward and attack first thing they see. No Dex or other check is made.

Perception to spot the trap, or passive Perception versus the trap-maker's Int check if you aren't checking for traps. If you blow the check (or passive Perception fails you) and fall in, the skeletons get surprise with no further checks required. Sucks to be you.

 

[GMMichael]

So I'd like to query my fellow DMs' ruling on a vague rule: surprise.

Surprise is pretty straightforward. In each of the examples you offer, it's pretty obvious that someone might be surprised. So I think your real question is: when does initiative begin? When does combat begin?

Since the Basic DMG doesn't say, I can't offer an official answer.

I can, however, offer guidance from the Modos RPG rulebook:

"When in doubt, the GM should start using initiative when:

• The timing of actions becomes important,
• The details of what happens become important,
• A character is in a position to make progress toward ending the conflict.

For example, a barfight is beginning. People are shouting, breaking bottles, and cracking pool cues. The GM can call for initiative if a character wants to flee while people are preparing their weapons, if there are only 5 available weapons and characters scramble for them, or when a character is ready to cause physical damage (make progress)."

 

[GX.Sigma]

1. AMBUSH. Character makes Dex (Stealth) check to hide behind tree and wait for monster.
2. FOREST SNEAK. Character makes Dex (Stealth) check to sneak through forest and approach monster.
3. CROWD SNEAK. Character makes Dex (Stealth) check to blend with crowd and approach enemy.

Stealth vs. Perception.

4. CROWD BLEND. Character makes Cha (Deception) check to blend with crowd and approach enemy.
5. ANONYMOUS DISGUISE. Character makes Cha (Deception) check to disguise himself as a generic harmless NPC (commoner, laborer, guard, anything the target wouldn't normally consider a threat), then attacks target when he is in range.
6. SPECIFIC DISGUISE. Character makes Cha (Deception) check to disguise himself as an NPC that's trusted by the target (specific person), then attacks target when he is in range.
7. SPELL DISGUISE. As 5 or 6 above, but using Disguise Self spell. No Dex or other check is made--just the Disguise Self spell (assume the target does not use its action to inspect the character).
8. BETRAYAL (aka, THE RED WEDDING). Character suddenly, and without provocation, attacks the well-known trusted ally sitting beside him at dinner (or during some other calm, noncombat situation). No Dex or other check is made.
9. ASSASSIN'S CREED. Character calmly strolls down crowded street toward target, with no visible weapons displayed, and suddenly attacks when in range. No Dex or other check is made.

Deception vs. Insight.

10. SANDMAN. Character approaches and stabs sleeping target. No Dex or other check is made.
11. INVISIBLE MAN. Character is invisible and standing still, and attacks when target gets within range. No Dex or other check is made.

Stealth vs. Perception.

12. POOF. Character scries target, teleports to target and attacks. No Dex or other check is made.
13. POOF 2. Character is sorcerer, in a crowded city street, and uses Subtle Spell to conjure monsters adjacent to target (without somatic or verbal components). No Dex or other check is made.
14. PIT. Character falls through hidden pit trap into pit of skeletons, who've all been set to stare upward and attack first thing they see. No Dex or other check is made.

Surprise!

(As always, DM can bypass the die roll if it's obvious)

 

[Zaruthustran]

Thanks for the replies, folks. Particularly GX.Sigma, who neatly summarized my own post-comment conclusions.

One unforeseen rule learning from this thread: the fact that Surprise does not last the entire round, but rather is limited to the end of each Surprised creature's turn. Fascinating! And a cool reward for high-Initiative creatures. You may be Surprised, but if you're quick enough, it's not for long.

 

[Athinar]

I think they take no action, so there is no bonus action, nor move, and after their turn they can have a reaction only.

But our game the "Surprise Event" happens before the Initiative is rolled