Sweet-spot: what's the "magic level?"

[Mercurius]

I know these types of threads get regurgitated every so often, but I thought it would be interesting to take a survey of how people feel - both for specific editions and across editions, with the hopes of coming up with a single number - a "magic level" - that is the most common sweet-spot for all editions? Or at least, more likely, a relatively tight range.

I grew up on AD&D but haven't played it in, oh I don't know, certainly over 15 years. But thinking back in my mind I remember 5th level being a kind of threshold that was passed into the "funner" levels and it was symbolized by magic-users being able to cast lightning and fireball. It was at this point that players could really start having a blast (OK, bad pun intended). Anyhow, things got a bit better from there. I remember 5th through about 12th being all very good, with perhaps a tight range being 7th-9th. I can't remember high level play, but think it was pretty good. I suppose 18th level was another "magical threshold" in that the entire spell range became available, including iconic meteor swarm and wish spells.

This held true for 3E, if I remember (but even that I haven't played in almost ten years, so its hard to remember). Of course things started breaking down at higher levels as characters became enormously complex.

4E seemed to manage a wider sweet-spot. Low levels were more interesting, and power levels rose more gradually. I think the sweet-spot was a bit later, though - with late Heroic and early Paragon standing out in my mind (say, 9-12 level). The campaign I was running dwindled away at around 17th level, although that entirely had to do with complex adult lives and not the level we were at. But it seemed to me that 4E handled higher levels very well, but the problem was that they didn't stand out - and the game played similarly pretty much throughout the range (I can't speak for Epic levels). So by the same you got deep into Paragon, it didn't really feel special anymore.

As I suspected, its probably impossible to find a "Magic level." But if I had to pick one, it would be 7. 5 is great and would be a second choice, but when you get to 7th level in any game you'll a fully established heroic character - you are probably in the upper 90-95th percentile of adventurers in your typical campaign world, but you still have things to look forward to.

What say you all?

 

[Zardnaar]

Generally 3-7 for 3rd ed, 5-9 or so for OSR and for 4th about 1-3. Roughly speaking.

 

[steeldragons]

Agreed on 7th. 5th was my first thought, for the lightning bolts and fireballs you mention. Gaining 3rd level spells is a series milestone, particularly in the older editions. But, for exactly the same reasons you point out, 7th seems to be the "magic level" for me. Aside from accruing the 4th level spells (another milestone for spellcasters) the PCs are, as you say, sufficiently "heroic" figures in the campaign world by this point and from here, things just get bigger and badder...better (more deadly, dangerous, richer and overall powerful = "better" here

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Yeah, generally 3 through about 7 or 8. Once PCs get access to things like teleport and raise dead (5th level spells and above) the game starts to change too much, the magic items have gotten gonzo, etc.

I do really like 1st through 3rd level play, but if I had to pick one level with maximum "D&Dness" it would probably be 5th, for reasons already stated here -- resilient, heroic characters, appearance of iconic spells like fireball, most classes display their iconic special abilities, there are enough cool magic items around to make it interesting without being over the top, and you can face *most* of the iconic monsters (admittedly running away from some).

 

[Gilladian]

Well, I play/run E6 for 3.5, so I do prefer low level play. In older systems, I could go up to 9th or so before feeling I was losing control a bit. 4e I've not played enough to be certain, but I seem to think characters were getting too complex by about 8-10th level.

 

[Minigiant]

I'd agree with 7th.

Inn AD&D that's when your fighters had 3/2 and your casters had enough useful slots to end "spell hoarding for the perfect usage".

In 3rd, 7th is when both you full warriors and most warriors who dabble have their second attack. Full Casters get 4th level spells and not enough slot to break the game.

In 4th, PCs are 2/3/2/2 with 4 feats. A nice balance of power, resources, and survivability.

That's all the magic level or sweet spot is. Getting PCs to a power level, amount of resources, and rank of survivability to feel heroic but still act somewhat cautious. So the magic level could change depending on the players, DM, playtest, or mood of the game.

 

[TwoSix]

Level 6. In 3e, all the casters get their 3rd level spells, warriors get their 2nd attack, and everyone gets a feat. In 4e, pretty much every class has 2 encounters, 2 dailies and 2 utilities.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Starting a 6, and working to 10 or 11. Big Damn Heroes.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Level 3-7 for pretty much every edition, although the sweet spot is a bit higher in 2e and a bit longer in 4e.

I found paragon level in 4e to be somewhat less fun, as turns took a really long time.

 

[Quartz]

I never played 4e but for 3E I think games were good fun from about 5th level onwards and most fun from about 8th level onwards. Do note that multiclassing was positively encouraged. I never had a problem with game-breaking magic: if it didn't fit, it wasn't available. It helped that we were all adults: no one threw a strop when the GM said that Teleport (for example) was LOS only or simply not available.