"Tactics in Action"--maybe I'm just getting too old, but this sounded boring as hell.

[Joshua Randall]

The actual HD-based knowledge rule has some weird side effects.
15th level wizard (Knowledge (arcana) +25) encountering a wyrmling white dragon (3 HD, DC 13): "Guys, it's immune to cold, breathes cold, can climb those ice walls like nobody's business, and is immune to paralysis and stuff."
The same wizard encountering a white great wyrm (36 HD, DC 46): "What IS that thing?"

The Knowledge skill rules also state that with a DC 10 check, you know "common knowledge" about a topic. In this case, white dragons. So the wizard encountering the white great wyrm would certainly not say, "What IS that thing?" But, as others pointed out, he might not know how fast it can fly or how many spells it can cast.

 

[chitzk0i]

Really is VirgilCaine

The Knowledge skill rules also state that with a DC 10 check, you know "common knowledge" about a topic. In this case, white dragons. So the wizard encountering the white great wyrm would certainly not say, "What IS that thing?" But, as others pointed out, he might not know how fast it can fly or how many spells it can cast.

Good point. It just takes DC 10 to know that they fly, are immune to one element, vulnerable to the opposite element, have blindsense and REALLY nasty saves, attack power and damage. Higher DCs would net spellcasting rates, special abilities (icewalking, etc.), and their immunity to sleep and paralysis.

 

[interwyrm]

Of course, just like the Balor should've used his flight, any respectable 10+ level adventuring party should be able to take the battle to the skies.

Teleporting is usually not a very slick tactic, since it means one round during which the Balor isn't kicking ass on all cylinders. 4 PCs vs. one Baddie is already stacked against the bad guy since he's got mostly one rounds worth of actions vs. the groups 4. Grapple - teleport - division of the group is a good tactic, provided that the Balor isn't guarding something or otherwise was not allowed to leave.

Two problems...
1. The Balor can use dispel magic at will to try to 'unfly' the party.
2. The Balor can't teleport away with someone as he can only teleport himself and 50 pounds of objects.

As far as one rounds worth of actions vs. the group's 4... If he summons another demon (which he has a 100% of succeeding) and both of the balors are doing quickened telekinesis + actions... that is close to the group's 4.

 

[Mystery Man]

This is like a "best case scenario" type dealio. 9 times out of 10 if a balor pops out of nowhere, the party is going to get caught with its pants down and somebody's (or two or more) going to bite it.

 

[Quasqueton]

It's always funny when someone explains how the armchair DMs are wrong.

[Description of battle]

"That was stupid tactics, you should have done X, Y, and Z."

"Well, X doesn't work that way, Y is ineffective, and Z is really not a good tactic in the described situation."

* * *

As others have said already, this is a prime example of why my game is core-only.

But I will also comment on this:

Man, more articles like that, and I could seriously be tempted to give up on D&D.

Huh? You'd give up a game because a DM you have no involvement with posts a story on a Web page you have no need to visit about a battle you have nothing to do with? What?

Quasqueton

 

[Particle_Man]

The actual HD-based knowledge rule has some weird side effects.
15th level wizard (Knowledge (arcana) +25) encountering a wyrmling white dragon (3 HD, DC 13): "Guys, it's immune to cold, breathes cold, can climb those ice walls like nobody's business, and is immune to paralysis and stuff."
The same wizard encountering a white great wyrm (36 HD, DC 46): "What IS that thing?"

Hadn't thought of that. I would set the DC based on the HD those dragons would have as an adult (with a higher DC for abilities that only dragons beyond adulthood would have). There is no reason for one to know so much about a creature just because the babies are precocious.

 

[Klaus]

Hadn't thought of that. I would set the DC based on the HD those dragons would have as an adult (with a higher DC for abilities that only dragons beyond adulthood would have). There is no reason for one to know so much about a creature just because the babies are precocious.

But there is.

For instance, the first dragon my party (and, I believe, most 3.x parties out there) met was Calcryx, the wyrmling white dragon in Sunless Citadel. The PCs came out of that battle knowing that a white dragon is immune to cold, vulnerable to fire, can walk on ice easily, can breathe a cone of ice and can fly. And they lived to tell the tale. TOH, they know nothing of the powers of an adult or older white dragon, 'cause they never met one.

So it makes sense to know a lot about weaker creatures, since those who have had first-hand experience with them can live to tell the tale more often than those who encounter more powerful creatures.

Like I said, a Knowledge DC based on the HD of a wyrmling dragon can give you pretty much everything about that dragon species. DCs based on the HD of older age categories serve only to wield information about stuff the dragon didn't possess earlier ("White Dragons breathe a cone of cold" DC 13; "The cone of cold of an adult White Dragon is 40ft. long" DC 28).

 

[The Shaman]

Cast buff spells. Cast immunity spells. Attack. Cast healing spells.

A scintillating tactical display. :\

The GM seriously underplayed the balor.

 

[Anson Caralya]

It's not tactics, but i enjoyed this part:

The combat medic, having sworn a Vow of Nonviolence, busily healed the party throughout the fight.

"I shall commit no act of violence, so that I may better support my boon companions in their acts of violence!"

 

[WhimsyTheFae]

I have a few thoughts regarding this:

First, the Balor appeared to be lacking and there was a lot of non-core stuff that assisted the party...'nuff said...

Second, if the party had fun then the GM did a good job (often overlooked when "studying game film").

Third, I have been guilty of playing a BBEG poorly and have went home kicking myself for how terrible it went (forgetting abilities, using unsound tactics, etc.). Weeks (even years in some cases) later, some players still refer to the battle like it was the state championships, a bachelor party or whatever other life-altering experience that you want to compare it to.

The lesson I learned - there will always be other BBEGs out there, but the fun that was had will last a lifetime...

On a side note, it is a good idea to warn the party when you want to pull no punches and really challenge them (sometimes even us "easy" GMs like to really pop the party in the mouth). Some groups love this style and play it all the time, but for those groups that enjoy near constant success and fame it is important to tread carefully when playing full-tilt.