Taking 20 on Open Lock

[cidak]

Should you be able to take 20 to open a lock? I doesn't say either way in the SRD about retries and after 4 weeks of watching a rogue easily bypass every lock he encounters I wonder if it should be a roll.

Does it work like a knowledge check, you either know it or you don't, or is it like a search, you can take your time to get it right?

I'm inclinded to say the former. The roll to Open lock would represent your ability to pick a lock at this point in time rather than just trying again and again until you get it right.

Any thoughts?

 

[Cougar]

It is indeed a skill that you can Take 20 with. Follow the guidelines for the Take 20 skill to determine which skills a PC can Take 20 with. Generally it is those skills that have no penalty for failure and situations that are unrushed. If you are frustrated with the ease of the rogue picking every lock by taking his time, I would recommend trapping the locks or keep the rogue from taking his time by having combat occur nearby or some other impending doom. Or you could simply make the locks harder to pick, but keep in mind that good rogues should be able to pick most mundane locks.

 

[mmu1]

The rules for taking 20 are simple - you can't do it if failing is going to have negative consequences (like springing a trap, falling down a cliff, going under while swimming, bombing when trying to entertain an audience, wasting materials when making a sword), but if a failed check simply means you've made no progress, then you can take 20 - which means you can use it with Open Lock.

The easiest way of staying within the rules as written and preventing people from taking 20 on Open Lock all the time is to force them to do it under time constraints of some sort (wandering monsters might come along, someone might hear if the rogue picks at the lock for a very long time, etc.) - although that's something that could quickly get tiresome for the players if overused.

You could also (rather than just declaring you have to roll all Open Lock checks) simply introduce a rule under which you jam a lock if your attempt to open it fails by 5 or more, which would prevent people from taking 20. (with additional rolls for trying to then un-jam it, perhaps breaking the lock if that fails by 5 or more, and so on.)

 

[Halivar]

Although, there really is no need to take twenty minutes to do something Krusk the half-orc barbarian can do in two.

Just my $0.02.

 

[cidak]

Although, there really is no need to take twenty minutes to do something Krusk the half-orc barbarian can do in two.

Just my $0.02.

There is that.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Although, there really is no need to take twenty minutes to do something Krusk the half-orc barbarian can do in two.

Heh.

"What's your bonus on Open Lock, Krusk?"
"+21. Oh, wait - Weapon Focus. +22."

-Hyp.

 

[shilsen]

Although, there really is no need to take twenty minutes to do something Krusk the half-orc barbarian can do in two.

Just my $0.02.

True. As a DM, I always appreciate it when PCs choose to do things which can be heard a couple rooms away

 

[Li Shenron]

Should you be able to take 20 to open a lock? I doesn't say either way in the SRD about retries and after 4 weeks of watching a rogue easily bypass every lock he encounters I wonder if it should be a roll.

Does it work like a knowledge check, you either know it or you don't, or is it like a search, you can take your time to get it right?

I'm inclinded to say the former. The roll to Open lock would represent your ability to pick a lock at this point in time rather than just trying again and again until you get it right.

Any thoughts?

Open Lock works like a Search check, not like a Knowledge check, which means that you can try over an over until you figure out how to pick the lock or otherwise realize you are not skilled enough.
It would be an interesting house rule to make it work the other way (banning retries), but it would have issues to be addressed: for example, if you later found a masterwork lockpicking tool, you'd have to break the rule and let the rogue try again.

I understand your frustration with rogues always succeeding, it happened to us to discuss this problem (and with searching hidden doors) at the gaming table, but we haven't figured out the solution yet. All I can suggest is to make the DC barely feasible for the character, then using circumstance penalties that the player must find a way to get rid of (or otherwise, make the DC just a few points over the max, and the player has to find a way to get the +2 circumstance bonus to make it with Take 20).

Also, it's quite a long time we had any rogue in the party, since the fighter players effectively make it simpler.

 

[Thanee]

Don't really see the problem... if there is no time pressure, the rouge SHOULD be able to pick just about any lock within her ability.

Now, if you need to open the door quick, then it becomes interesting (i.e. room is filling with water).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Oscar carramiñana]

The next time your rogue take 20 opening a door. a buffed BBG with a lot of spells waits to attack. after this he open the doors in a round