Talent Trees - The Way To Go?

[bert1000]

Can someone explain the talent system in star wars saga to me?

Basically they broke down what you would normally consider class features / abilities / spell slots etc. into groups of "talents". You could pick new talents every other level from the groups of talents your class or prestige class had access to (usually 3-5 groups).

The important differentiator in Saga was that most of the talent groups did not have 'deep' trees. There were hardly ever more than 2 prerequites for any talent in a group. So if there were 6-10 talents (abilities) in a group you would hardly ever have to spend more than 3 talents to get a keystone ability in the group (there also could be more than 1 per group because of the shallow trees). Even entry talents (no prerequisite) could be useful to characters at any level, 1-20.

This structure made multi classing work really well. In fact the classes were more building blocks than anything else (gave you access to certain talent trees) and the system never added anything beyond the 5 base archetype classes + pretige classes.

 

[Connorsrpg]

Saga Talent Trees are not one path

The Saga talent trees are a little different from what others may be experiencing here. They do not just build one way - you can take another branch within them. In fact a lot of Talents do not have prerequisites, some have a couple of other Talents.

So within each TT there are several powers to choose from. This is a way I see all options from previous editions BEING available. And if you want old school, you take an archetype with the Talents predetermined.

Someone said they were like classes - well they could be like subclasses and it is a nice refined system without doing new classes. Much easier to add a couple of new suitable Talent Trees suitable for a cavalier and then granting access to them for Fighters and Paladins for eg.

A Woodsman TT could be accessed from someone who grew up in the forest (Theme/BG), being an Elf (racial), or being a Ranger or Druid (Class). This way you have one set of ideas on what a woodsman can do and they don't have to worry about the other 'woodsy' rules. All in one spot.

 

[Connorsrpg]

RE Multi-Classing

Saga did do this well too. (You get one of the bonus features of the other class and the best of the modifiers - they do not stack. That's it - other than access to new Talent Trees).

Prestige Classes then also grant access to a number of Talent Trees (often ones available to other classes as well as 1-2 unique ones). Again - very easy to add to the game without retroing any rules.

 

[Kynn]

It doesn't seem likely that something which never appeared in D&D would be a central mechanic in a backwards-looking "unity edition."

The closest D&D has ever gotten to something like this was the point-buy system in Player Options: Skills & Powers.

 

[Connorsrpg]

RE Feats

My thoughts on Feats fitting this system: feats are only very general abilities available to ALL characters.

Any current feats that are suited to one race, class or theme, BECOME part of the relevant Talent Tree. Only feats that are completely non-specific remain as feats. In this system I would grant a lot less of them than are currently available - but I would certainly grant more Talents (in place of Class abilities for those that don't want to build).

 

[Connorsrpg]

RE - non-dnd

I actually see this as THE mechanic to unite all editions.

Classes come with basic, in-built assumptions, we know this. (1E-3E).

These can be swapped out for alternate powers. Well, do you just make great lists of what powers are available at each level? That is similar, but what a load of choices. Talent Trees narrow the choices, focus your character (very 4E like or even 2E kits, or 3E alternate class powers).

Also unifies the 3E mechanics of racial paragon levels, racial substitution levels and racial hit dice levels.

You cannot get more modular than Talent Trees. They are the perfect add-ons. And they can exist outside of the main framework.

Also - with the lowered math, and hopefully no level assigned to every power, each choice remains relevant for longer. In this sense I believe they are like the Essentials class features.

 

[Sirot]

Given how modular the designers describe 5e, I would suspect that a system like this is already in place.

 

[Traken]

Talent trees have also been "proven" to work in both d20 Modern and SAGA. This might actually be what they've named as "themes."

I just hope they keep with the short talent trees instead of having one you're supposed to take from level 1 onwards.

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

Yeah, Saga's talent trees are great. I'd even like to see feats organized in the same manner.

Classes could have talent trees, as could races and themes.

Prestige Classes? Sure, each is just another talent tree with stricter requirements.

The only class feature that doesn't mesh perfectly with talent trees is the spell slots of Vancian magic, and I believe that's solvable as well.

 

[Connorsrpg]

[MENTION=82425]BobTheNob[/MENTION]

Try thinking of a Talent Tree as a unified group of themed powers, with only SOME requiring other Talents to get them.