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D&D 5E (Tasha's) Decoupling racial abilities--cautionary tale

Horwath

Hero
Pathfinder 1st ED, did fairly good job in Advance race guide.
I did not like "build your own race" too much, but several fixed choices for each race did work great.

No need to spend "race point" as as elven ranger on weapon proficiency as you have it from your race. Much better if you could get 2 or 3 tools/languages or 1 extra skill or 1 cantrip instead of it.

maybe half orc wizard could get advantage on con rolls for spells instead of savage attacks.
 

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ChaosOS

Legend
It's going to be some form of packages, with some of them being really obvious things that people might've already been doing already in home games like language swaps (I know I do a bunch of language swaps already just because my assumptions about who speaks what are different than the core rulebooks). Others will be "Yeah that makes sense" stuff, like the weapon proficiencies (Seriously, my dwarf hermit druid who was raised by wolves has warhammer proficiency?) The question is, how far does wotc go - Skill proficiencies seem like a likely target, so I can have an intimidating elf or a perceptive orc, but how exactly that's handled is yet to be seen.
 

Horwath

Hero
It's going to be some form of packages, with some of them being really obvious things that people might've already been doing already in home games like language swaps (I know I do a bunch of language swaps already just because my assumptions about who speaks what are different than the core rulebooks). Others will be "Yeah that makes sense" stuff, like the weapon proficiencies (Seriously, my dwarf hermit druid who was raised by wolves has warhammer proficiency?) The question is, how far does wotc go - Skill proficiencies seem like a likely target, so I can have an intimidating elf or a perceptive orc, but how exactly that's handled is yet to be seen.

some skill proficiency can be "genetic" and not tradeable.

elven perception could be genetic advantage, while orcs intimidate could be purely social as that is how their tribe works.
 

AD&D 2e Player's Options. When that came out, it basically did that for races and classes. And was received poorly by the community as a whole, largely because it created min/max nightmares.
2e Player's Option had a mixed response, I wouldn't say it was received poorly by the community as a whole.

In the late 90's, when I was first starting to play, almost every group I played with used Player's Option rules.

There were definitely groups that didn't, and some people who felt very strong about it, but those rules were definitely not rejected widely.

In fact, a lot of 3e could see its roots in the 2e player's option materials. 3e's combat system has its roots in the 2e Player's Option: Combat and Tactics. Feats trace to a number of NWP's from High Level Campaigns, Combat and Tactics, and Spells and Magic that did more than simply giving a normal "skill" like other NWP's did.

Yes, they could be min-maxed like crazy, but 2e could be just plain brutal with DM's on the other side as well, and more than once I saw a DM just flat out say No to an ridiculous powergaming build (the most obvious one I saw get hit with a DM veto was to take a Cleric, trade in most of the spell spheres for fighter weapons and THAC0 and various other abilities, and get a character that could still heal and have some spells like a Cleric, but could do everything a Fighter could do and some stuff from other classes too maybe, like Wizard Evocation spells for attack magic like Fireball and Lightning Bolt). Gonzo powergaming, ludicrous min-maxing, and petty rules lawyering and negotiation by both players and DM's seemed a hallmark of AD&D 2e that thankfully was greatly reduced in the 3.x era (certainly not abolished, but the min-maxing and rules lawyering I saw in 3.x was small potatoes compared to 2e min-maxing I saw happening only a few years before).
 



Prediction time!

1) Races will not have any innate bonuses, all races will have +1 to 2 stats of their choice.

2) Each Race will have its features divided into some kind of fixed/major/minor category. Fixed is stuff that's essential to the race, like a Loxodon trunk, or Lizardman scales, or Changeling Shapeshift, or Warforged Constructed Resilience.

3) Major and Minor features will be swappable between races. Extra +1s to various stats will be major or minor features.

4) This section of the book will be pretty big, like 20-25 pages.
If this is true, it is interesting to me.
Part of the fun of character creation (for many) is figuring out what jigsaw puzzle-piece to place in each of the the steps for character creation. It is definitely a mini-game within a game to many players. The puzzle has 25 ways to solve it, but only 5 are obvious. So players spend time figuring out how to make the other 20. That is fun for them, and still completes the puzzle.
Removing it is giving the players playdough. Many (especially new players) will make a blob. Others will sculpt The David.
 

MarkB

Legend
If this is true, it is interesting to me.
Part of the fun of character creation (for many) is figuring out what jigsaw puzzle-piece to place in each of the the steps for character creation. It is definitely a mini-game within a game to many players. The puzzle has 25 ways to solve it, but only 5 are obvious. So players spend time figuring out how to make the other 20. That is fun for them, and still completes the puzzle.
Removing it is giving the players playdough. Many (especially new players) will make a blob. Others will sculpt The David.
But on the other hand, at least we'll no longer see 90% of characters being drawn from those 5 obvious answers.
 

Coroc

Hero
some skill proficiency can be "genetic" and not tradeable.

elven perception could be genetic advantage, while orcs intimidate could be purely social as that is how their tribe works.

Since some behavior seems at least be more likely depending on genetics (and the social background only completes the picture) that is maybe not to much difference.

I mean from an evolutionary viewpoint that makes sense: The most intimidating orcs are the leaders and thos who most likely procreate.
 

MGibster

Legend
I don't honestly believe this will fundamentally change how anyone plays D&D. Whether you you like these new options or not, I don't think they will have a significant impact on how the game is actually played. A Gnome with a 20 Strength might be stupid, or cool if that's what you like, but it's not like bringing a Goliath with a 20 Strength is going to have a different experience with the adventure.
 

SkidAce

Legend
Supporter
I don't honestly believe this will fundamentally change how anyone plays D&D. Whether you you like these new options or not, I don't think they will have a significant impact on how the game is actually played. A Gnome with a 20 Strength might be stupid, or cool if that's what you like, but it's not like bringing a Goliath with a 20 Strength is going to have a different experience with the adventure.

I agree with this. Here is a semi-related example.

Friend created gnome barbarian, and joined our group. Had a greatsword of course.

Wasn't until 2nd level that we realized the gnome should have disadvantage with a large weapon.

Thought about it a minute, remembered he had been raised by Neanderthals, shrugged and said "carry on".

Unique situation, but re: quote, it didnt fundamentally over power his character because of race or ability.

Not a "big" fan of customizing races, as I feel some species in a fantasy world would share similar traits, but we won't let it stop our game and might use some bits of the idea.
 

Undrave

Hero
If this is true, it is interesting to me.
Part of the fun of character creation (for many) is figuring out what jigsaw puzzle-piece to place in each of the the steps for character creation. It is definitely a mini-game within a game to many players. The puzzle has 25 ways to solve it, but only 5 are obvious. So players spend time figuring out how to make the other 20. That is fun for them, and still completes the puzzle.
Removing it is giving the players playdough. Many (especially new players) will make a blob. Others will sculpt The David.

I think it'll be more like going from Duplo to LEGO. It's the same principle, but you get a few more smaller pieces instead.
 

G

Guest 6801328

Guest
I predict this will be a huge headache for the DNDBeyond devs.
It would be hilarious to find out that there’s bad blood between WotC staff and DNDB staff, and one of the things driving design decisions is &$@#ing with the DNDB team.
 


On the other hand, I really liked that in the playtest DnDnext there was an iteration where classes gave +1 to their main stat. So I would not mind if being an elf would only come with +1 dexterity.

Yes, I have houseruled back in the class ability score increase from the playtest, so a High Elf Fighter would start with:

Elf
Ability Score Increase:
Your Dexterity score increases by 1

High Elf
Ability Score Increase:
Your Intelligence score increases by 1

Fighter
Ability Score Increase:
Your Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution score increases by 1
 

Cadence

Legend
Supporter
It's always irritated me they they don't make Duplo to Lego connecting pieces.

I'm embarrassed to say I just assumed it wouldn't work and never actually tried this myself... but apparently they can connect. (Did the older Duplo have solid bumps at the top so it wouldn't have worked, or did our little one just have an offbrand of Duplo sized blocks?)
 

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Undrave

Hero
I'm embarrassed to say I just assumed it wouldn't work and never actually tried this myself... but apparently they can connect. (Did the older Duplo have solid mumps at the top so it wouldn't have worked, or did our little one just have an offbrand of Duplo sized blocks?)

Probably off brand, I'm guessing Mega Bloks. Only base plates had solid pegs in Duplo.
 


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