Technicality Time: Dragons

[the Jester]

A crush attack affects as many creatures as can fit under the dragon's body. Creatures in the affected area must succeed at a Reflex save (DC equal to that of the dragon's breath weapon) or be pinned, automatically taking bludgeoning damage during the next round unless the dragon moves off of them.

Affected creatures can attempt Reflex saves (DC equal to that of the dragon's breath weapon).

On a technicality, looks like Ability Focus (breath weapon) applies to crush and tail sweep attacks.

 

[Vorput]

....heh

 

[Bad Paper]

thank you soooooooooooooo much

 

[Infiniti2000]

Here's an oddity in the dragon description. I was thinking of creating a new thread, but this one seems much more convenient.

What do you make of the underlined text? When grappling, does a dragon need to make a Concentration check to breathe or use a supernatural ability? Normally, I would say no, but the following is badly written if that's the case.

Grappling
Dragons do not favor grapple attacks, though their crush attack (and Snatch feat, if they know it) use normal grapple rules. A dragon can always use its breath weapon while grappling, as well as its spells and spell-like or supernatural abilities, provided it succeeds on Concentration checks.

 

[Gansk]

The concentration checks are for the spells. In the context of the sentence, the supernatural concentration checks automatically succeed.

 

[Infiniti2000]

The concentration checks are for the spells. In the context of the sentence, the supernatural concentration checks automatically succeed.

Maybe.

Take out the clause separated by commas and you get: "A dragon can always use its breath weapon while grappling provided it succeeds on Concentration checks."

Replace 'breath weapon' with the abilities listed in the clause: "A dragon can always use its spells and spell-like or supernatural abilities while grappling provided it succeeds on Concentration checks."

In either case it doesn't seem to be right. I just think it's badly written.

 

[Bad Paper]

bah! Just use the Conc checks for SLAs and be done with it.

 

[LokiDR]

Supernatural abilities don't provoke attackes of opportunity and cannot be disrupted. It looks like a mistake to me. On the issue of Dragon's breath weapon DCs, I would take that passage to mean the DC for those other attack forms is calculated the same as breath weapon DC. Ability focus says "Add +2 to the DC for all saving throws against the special attack on which the creature focuses." How is a crush attack the same as a breath weapon in terms of focus?

 

[Corsair]

In either case it doesn't seem to be right. I just think it's badly written.

Run on sentences are the bane of clear and concise rules.

 

[frankthedm]

If the dragon need the concentration check for the breath, I suspect it would have been written like this.

A dragon can always use its breath weapon, spells, spell-like or supernatural abilities while grappling, provided it succeeds on Concentration checks.