Tell me about languages in your game

[Psion]

Getting languages cheap does not bug me. PCs are extraordinary in other ways.

What does bug me is that races seem to speak the same tongue over vastly separated times and space. That's one implicit assumption that I put the kibosh on rather promptly.

In my planar game, I have assumed that the "common" that the PCs know (really Trade Tongue, a pidgin admixture of the main tongues of two related cultures on my prime game world) is not the same common tongue as is spoken on the planes or any other prime. I don't CARE that it automatically introduces communication obstacles, that's better than scraping of my fragile suspension of disbeleif when it comes to this issues.

Somewhat generously, I treat Draconic and Sylvan (and to a lesser extent, elven) as a sort of latin, scholarly languages that, due the the ancientness of plane travellers using those languages, are spoken in similar forms on different worlds.

 

[John Morrow]

What does bug me is that races seem to speak the same tongue over vastly separated times and space. That's one implicit assumption that I put the kibosh on rather promptly.

Given the assumption of widespread literacy in D&D as well as the presence of deities and extra-planar, I don't think it's necessarily all that absurd, though there are several "Common" families in my game based on which cross-plane group (outer plane entities, githyanki, illithid, etc.) dominates a particular material plane world.

I don't CARE that it automatically introduces communication obstacles, that's better than scraping of my fragile suspension of disbeleif when it comes to this issues.

Do you have active deities in your game? Is it really that much of a stretch to assume that they did in inverse Tower of Babel thing? How did your worlds become populated?

 

[Desdichado]

My experience with it was that it was largely a waste of time, since the tongues spell still completley negates the reason to have any language skill at all.

We didn't have any language related spells in our game. The point, though, is that you just want to have some hint of linguistic diversity and verisimilitude without bogging down the game and frustrating your players too much.

 

[Khayman]

I'm running an historical game set in the 1400s, so this will be a bit more involved than the core rules. Characters are assumed to be human for this campaign, and magic is decidedly low.

* There is no 'Common', although in particular time periods and regions there will be a dominant tongue that is used for trade --- Latin, Aramaic, etc.
* Literacy is a cross-class skill. One rank gives a PC the ability to read and write in one script. For example, Latin, Cyrillic, Ogham. [edit: Our previous solution was to assume all PCs were literate, with the option of 'buying down' to illiteracy at first level, receiving 2 bonus skill points.]
* Characters begin with one automatic language (their native tongue). For example, characters from England speak English.
* Characters gain bonus languages depending on their region. For example, English characters may select from French, Gaelic (various dialects), and Dutch.
* Languages are divided into three grades: Basic, Functional, and Fluent (or ranks 1, 2, and 3). There are higher grades, but the benefits are to a) scholars and b) actors hoping to lose/gain an accent. Basic means you can ask where the bathroom is. Functional means that you can ask why the bathroom is filthy. Fluent means you can expound upon the masterful fresco painted on the bathroom wall and share your tips for grouting.
* Characters begin by having a Functional (rank 2) grasp of their native language --- unpolished but adequate. Each 'additional language' granted by Intelligence bonus gives +1 Language Point, which can be used to buy automatic or bonus language ranks. These may be supplemented by ranks bought through the Speak Language skill.
* A language cannot be increased by more than 1 rank per character level.

So, the average beginning character might know 1 to 3 languages, and even then some of them might be better than others.

We also have a feat, currently called 'Cunning Linguist' (working title), that a) gives bonus language ranks at 1st level and b) allows characters to purchase languages faster (i.e., up to 3 skill points/level).

edit: We also have PCs make Listen checks to decipher related dialects of a known language --- DC 10, 15, or 20 depending on levels in their native language. Taking 10 is an option --- "speak slowly, damn you!"

 

[Ace]

I'm interested in understanding to what extent different languages play in your campaign.

I'm fascinating by languages, but different languages are often "hand waved" (to use Alsih2o's term). In d20, languages can be learned with 1 (maybe 2) meager skill points, so it's quite possible to have linguistical masters in your game, but most people (it seems) completely disregard language skills. What with the "comprehend languages" spell, any foreign languge can be quickly dismissed as a trivial exercise in casting a low-level spell.
SNIP
.

So anyway. Tell me about languages, and their role in your game.

Ok --

there are about 30 or 40 known languages and dialects grouped into three families

Anglish -- this is Earth English with a mix of other languages (mostly Germanic, Celtic, French and Latin) mixed in. Many people speak Anglish as all of the Earth colonists spoke the language in the begining even if they were bilingual

Proto Basque -- this makes up the languages of the Shan people (private joke here as Basque is assumed to be a language from another planet IMC)

Shan -- from the same world as the Basque Speakers come from

Most educated or adventurous folks speak 2 languages typically High Anglish (Common) -- which is a fairly similar to 20th century English and a local dialect (Aradian, Vinyari, Kingdom Spach, Orena or whatever) --

For rare languages there is Anochian, Elder Tongue, Fae, Shaper and Dark Speech

Magic makes the study of languages rare as 2000GP will buy you a translator medalion that will let you understand any language at a time (this is an at will Comprehend Languages item) and these are fairly common

 

[Ace]

I'm curious how GMs here have handled "ancient, dead languages" with regards to spell use? Do you rule that comprehend languages and tongues simply don't work on them, or do you allow them to work?

IMC there really is only one dead language Shaper and it can be learned like any other language --
Translation was done years ago with high powered magic

 

[MarauderX]

IMC there are some ancient races that have their own language. Some of the ancient race languages are already rather 'common', such as Elven and Draconic. Others are unique unto themselves and are a hurdle that can be overcome by a number of spells for a limited time. Then again, traps can be overcome with spells, as well as a number of other things, and I have no problem with the PC ability to interact with them.

In our last session the group's bard cast tongues in order to speak with two celestials. Later on (tongues had run out) they met a duergar and tried to talk to him. The duergar sorcerer didn't understand a word but tried several words and gestures in his own language... as a bluff as he cast a fireball.

I'm a little miffed about the 1 or 2 skill points to learn a language, as normally it takes months to learn enough to get by in a society. And even then there are misunderstandings with every third sentence. And nothing gets a fight started in D&D like miscommunication.

"I wish your mother the happiest of wishes with her retarded child."

 

[Celebrim]

My opinion is that while linguistic devices are interesting, they get in the way of gameplay if over used.

I employ the following devices to get around the problem:

1) Originally all the intelligent races spoke the same language (called Primal).
2) All languages - whether existing or forgotten - are derived from Primal in some way.
3) Hense, all languages default to one another. In this fashion, Decipher Script lets you work out the general meaning of even a language you've never seen before. Comprehend Languages works according to a similar principal, sense it would be impossible for a mere 1st level spell to allow translation of a truly alien tongue.
4) Primal is itself descended from a language called Elder Primal. Elder Primal is the language of the gods, the langauge that magic is written in, and the langauge that the creator god used to cause the universe to come into being. Your True Name is your name in Elder Primal.
5) Most races have been around long enough and have spread out over enough parts of the world that there languages have diverged into three or four large language groups, and each of these groups has over the past few thousand years evolved.
6) The language of each race which is closest to Primal is called the Ancient tongue. Generally there is only one ancient tongue per race. If you know the modern version of the tongue, then you might be able to work out something of the Ancient tongue, but you'd have to be pretty smart and fairly expert in the language and linguistics in general.
7) The transition languages between Ancient and the modern tongue are called Archaic. Generally speaking, there are several Archaic tongues per race, each tied to one large successful empire which spread that tongue widely. Many of these Ancient languages persist as legal, scholarly, artistic, and court languages. In some cases - like Archaic Elvish - there are still communities that speak the language.
8) For each race, there are 1-4 modern versions of the language, which are distributed over such a wide region (usually continent wide) that generally speaking, if you know the modern version of a particular racial language, you can speak with anyone you meet as if it was a 'common' tongue. Essentially, the modern versions of a racial language would not be much more different than say Italian and French or similar language groups in the real world, so that if you can speak one you could probably with difficulty communicate to someone else if you had a peice of paper and enough time to work things out.
9) For each modern tongue, there are a variaty of dialects, but these are no more different than Swiss German and High German, for example. Therefore, with some minor difficulties, the dialects can be ignored.
9) Outsiders (and presumably Abberations, though I haven't thought about it) know truly alien tongues. You can't use comprehend languages to read Auran, Celestial, Infernal or any of the 'secret' languages of outsiders, and using decipher script on them is very difficult.

I would very much like to keep the total number of languages in my campaign around 30, and certainly below 50.

At some point, I'm going to have to work this all out in detail and come up with some rules for how skillful you are in a particular language. I'd like to extend language skills out to at least 4 or 5 ranks to obtain full fluency (and maybe further than that for lexicography and etomology), with the assumption that you started with 4 or 5 ranks in your native tongue, and maybe bonus 'language points' equal to your starting int bonus. If I did this, I'd probably make languages a class skill for everyone, and give bards extra points every level to spend on languages. Anyway, something I've always wanted to do but never worked the details out for.

 

[Philip]

While I don't have Common IMC I don't play foreign languages as they should, it's just to much of a hassle. If PCs encounter people who speak a different language, I use unknown words, weird accents and similar twists to give them the 'feel' of speaking to a person with another language. After a few conversations I slowly tone down the changes, because I find that the mood and tone is usually set by then.

Properly role-playing foreign languages has a few essential problems I encountered when I tried a 'more realistic' approach.


1. A player with a character that understands a particular language (by having the skill or casting tongues) tends to monopolize all role-playing in 'foreign' regions. This is just not fun for the other players.

2. Its difficult to role-play foreign languages if you don't speak them yourself. You tend to speak your own language and the players of the PCs that don't understand it must play like they didn't hear anything. A difficult feat at best.

3. A PC of at least moderate intelligence would pick up working knowledge of a unknown language after being a month or so in a region where they speak that language. PCs with 16 Int may pick it up after a week. There is no proper way to simulate this during play.

4. Players are usually not interested by the intricacies of multiple different languages. Play time is short and infrequent enough at it is, and they rather spend it performing heroic feats, improving their haggling skills or tossing cool insults at their adversaries than wrestling with imaginary languages.

Common in D&D is like transporters and universal translators in Star Trek. They spare a lot of hassle with things that aren't interesting 95% of the time.

 

[wingsandsword]

I'm quite proud that I've managed to make languages quite useful in my game, and encouraged PC's to actually buy ranks in Language skills.

First, I made extensive use out of the "Regional" languages of Forgotten Realms; Midani, Chondathan, Damaran, ect. Everyday conversations are normally spoken in these languages, locals, rulers, guards and such will use this language first unless they have reason not to.

"Common" is a mish-mash pigdin of some interrelated regional human languages, with loanwords and expressions copied or translated from various other languages, and largely "dumbed down" with a relatively small vocabulary set. It's used by travellers, traders and such when there is no other common language, but nobody speaks it as a first language or if there is a better language to use.

Then there are the planar languages, like the 4 Elemental tongues, Celestial, Abyssal, Infernal, which are spoken on the outer planes and are the same everywhere, including other material worlds. Racial languages like Sylvan, Elven and Draconic are also largely standard thanks to racial deities and outsiders who maintain some central unity, although they have a lot of local dialects and accents.

The PC's need to know local languages to fit in seamlessly. If they want to address the Court of a kingdom, they better do it in the local language, or there's a -4 penalty on interaction checks for the faux-pas (and a -2 penalty for using Tongues, see below). If they want to pass themselves off as a local, or infiltrate a base (like they tried in their last adventure), if they don't know the local language it's going to be trouble. They can speak in Common and be understood, but instantly give themselves away as foriegner.

I assume the Tongues spell works effectively like dubbing a movie or TV show, you hear what they are saying in a similar voice that is well translated, but the lips don't sync up and some fine points of language might be lost if the concept doesn't translate, and it works both ways since others will see your lips moving out-of-sync with what you're saying and while they can generally understand you, occasionally a nuance or detail of what you're saying will be lost.

Comprehend Languages I assume works perfectly, you can innately understand what's being communicated and get all the subtleties you might not normally even have words for, of course, you can't communicate the depth of it to others with languages you know, and you can't hold a conversation with it, but it's great for reading ancient texts and overhearing things.

I also let players make Intelligence checks after they've been immersed in a language for a while to try and figure out, very roughly, what's being said or written, with bonuses if they know a closely related language, and penalties if it's wildly different from anything they know. They still need to spend skill points to become truly skilled with the language though.