Tell me why I'm wrong about grappling. Please.

[Caliban]

OK let's look at this, using, say, a monk of 11th level (BAB +8), with Improved Grapple and a Strength of 18. We'll call him Hogan, and we'll assume that he succeeds on each attack and grapple check.

OK.

Now let's asume for a moment that Hogan is fighting a medium sized creature without any feats that affect grappling, and on his turn starts next to that opponent. He makes a touch attack (at +12) and succeeds, and then a grapple check (at +16).

Problem 1) your grapple bonus is incorrect.

BAB = +11
IG = +4
Str 18 = +4

Total: +19 grapple.

After inflicting damage, he then chooses NOT to enter his target's space and thus ends the grapple. Then he begins the cycle anew with another touch attack (this time at +7), and a grapple check of +16.

Problem 2) I don't believe you have a choice about entering the target's space. It happens automatically if you succeed at the grapple check.

Problem 3) Your additional grapple checks are at a -5 cumulative penalty to the check, the same as iterative attacks.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Problem 1) you'r grapple bonus is incorrect.

BAB = +11
IG = +4
Str 18 = +4

Total: +19 grapple.

Problem 1a) Where do you get a BAB of +11? Monks have Average BAB progression...

-Hyp.

 

[Caliban]

Problem 1a) Where do you get a BAB of +11? Monks have Average BAB progression...

-Hyp.

You get it by mixing up the level and bab in the first post. Apparently I get dislexic when I'm tired.

 

[Hypersmurf]

You get it by mixing up the level and bab in the first post.

Ooh... I wanna play an 8th level monk with a +11 BAB now!

-Hyp.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Ooh... I wanna play an 8th level monk with a +11 BAB now!

-Hyp.

Me too, though I'd much prefer a level 10 Wizard with +20 BAB

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

So, assuming this is true, Hogan has just managed to turn his full attack action into a series of touch attacks at no real cost to himself.

Now is the part where you tell me why I'm wrong. I have the feeling that I am, but I want to know why.

You are wrong with respect to its significance, but right on the mechanical details.

Full attack vs. normal attack is irrelevant because your effective BAB rachets down with each iterative attack.

Turning an Attack into Touch Attack + Grapple check is only a benefit if either (1) the normal AC of the target is quite high, or (2) the grapple check of the target is quite low. Otherwise the chance to fail at two rolls instead of one tends to hurt you.

In case #1, you are using Improved Grapple how and when it is intended by the powers that be in all their infinite wisdom. Good move.

In case #2, using Improved Grapple is only really helpful if your target is a spellcaster. Anything else weak enough to easily grapple, even with that +4 bonus, is probably a mook. You should dispatch mooks in whichever style you find most enjoyable, be it crushing their throats with your fist or choking the life out of them up close and personal; it hardly matters either way.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Yes, but the damage you deal does not automatically negate the grapple in this case. Instead, you add the damage you deal to your grapple check.

Frankly, I consider this a must have feat for fighters of mid levels or so, at that point everything you fight is large or larger practically and they all seem to grapple

I agree.

Collecting unglamorous but highly useful feats like this is the often overlooked reason to go straight Fighter. Anyone can build a PC that kicks arse on a good day, but a straight Fighter can keep ticking on a lot of bad days.

Unless you are a highly optimized damage dealer, it is entirely possible that CQF will not save you from being grappled by Improved Grab. Even then, this is an awesome feat. Getting an extra free attack or two means that monster is going to be dead that much sooner.

 

[Stalker0]

In case #2, using Improved Grapple is only really helpful if your target is a spellcaster.

Not really true. Its true that monks with their lower BAB are going to suffer vs. a full fighter BAB. But then again I see most monks "fail" at grappling when they go the dex monk route instead of the strength one.

A str monk can have near the same strength as a fighter, and the +4 compensates for a lot of BAB until very high levels. Around 6th level or so, an improved grapple monk can be very hard to avoid.

 

[TheGogmagog]

If You’re Grappling

When you are grappling (regardless of who started the grapple), you can perform any of the following actions. Some of these actions take the place of an attack (rather than being a standard action or a move action). If your base attack bonus allows you multiple attacks, you can attempt one of these actions in place of each of your attacks, but at successively lower base attack bonuses.

What am I missing? Why would you want to discontinue the grapple so you can re-initiate it? You can continue the rest of your attack actions to damage, with just the grapple check.

 

[reveal]

What am I missing? Why would you want to discontinue the grapple so you can re-initiate it? You can continue the rest of your attack actions to damage, with just the grapple check.

Because it's a touch attack. Usually grapple checks are harder to win, on average, than it is to hit a touch attack.

The original poster was worried that the monk could make 3 or 4 touch attacks in a row and do 1d10+x damage each time.