Tell me why I'm wrong about grappling. Please.

[Rystil Arden]

Because it's a touch attack. Usually grapple checks are harder to win, on average, than it is to hit a touch attack.

The original poster was worried that the monk could make 3 or 4 touch attacks in a row and do 1d10+x damage each time.

Actually, it becomes a touch attack and grapple check each time if you discontinue the grapple.

 

[reveal]

Actually, it becomes a touch attack and grapple check each time if you discontinue the grapple.

Ah yes. I forgot about that.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Ah yes. I forgot about that.

No worries. I think the real thing the OP wants is to not have to be grappling with that opponent when all is said and done, nor in the opponent's space.

 

[reveal]

No worries. I think the real thing the OP wants is to not have to be grappling with that opponent when all is said and done, nor in the opponent's space.

And I answered why that's unpossible in post #14.

 

[Enkhidu]

No worries. I think the real thing the OP wants is to not have to be grappling with that opponent when all is said and done, nor in the opponent's space.

If that were all I wanted, I'd simply touch (succeed), grapple (win), pin (win), and drop the grapple (no contest).

 

[reveal]

If that were all I wanted, I'd simply touch (succeed), grapple (win), pin (win), and drop the grapple (no contest).

nevermind

 

[Enkhidu]

nevermind

You were getting ready to tell me I was wrong, weren't you?

 

[Rystil Arden]

If that were all I wanted, I'd simply touch (succeed), grapple (win), pin (win), and drop the grapple (no contest).

Then why turn Touch, Grapple, Grapple to Touch, Grapple, Touch, Grapple? That's an unnecessary additional roll to make.

 

[reveal]

You were getting ready to tell me I was wrong, weren't you?

I never noticed that pin took the place of an attack, which means that you can pin in the same round as you start the grapple if you have multiple attacks.

 

[Enkhidu]

Then why turn Touch, Grapple, Grapple to Touch, Grapple, Touch, Grapple? That's an unnecessary additional roll to make.

No damage on the second grapple (the pin).

The only way this would have even been a good tactic in the first place (even assuming that moving in to complete a grapple is not imperitive - by the way I'm glad that I've now seen some evidence that it is, even if that evidence isn't direct) would have been against heavily armored clerics - the straight up grapple check would have a great chance on the 1st roll (because of the high str and the additional +4) and an even up chance on the second (with the bonuses offsetting the dip in BAB). All of the sudden the PC is touch attacking ACs in the low teens versus melee attacking ACs in the low to mid 20s.