"Ten for That? You Must be Mad!"

[Pbartender]

Should 4th Edition include a Haggle skill? Should it be a specific application of a particular skill, the way Neverwinter Nights uses Appraise, or the way I've been using Diplomacy?

We've already seen a "Streetwise" skill in the teasers... I'd guess that would be the primary skill that'll be used for haggling, if any.

 

[Hella_Tellah]

We've already seen a "Streetwise" skill in the teasers... I'd guess that would be the primary skill that'll be used for haggling, if any.

Ah, that would be good. I really like the Streetwise skill conceptually--it seems weird that someone with huge ranks in Gather Information wouldn't have lots of Knowledge: Local or be adept at sweet-talking the locals. Synergy bonuses are okay, but lots of these skills needed to be folded together.

 

[Wormwood]

I've used diplomacy vrs profession in my games, with bonuses for things like your own profession or knowledge about the items, and the NPC's disposition towards them...

Social vs. Profession?

I love this idea.

Thanks!

 

[Patlin]

Haggling? I don't want any. In fact, I don't even want any on camera shopping. I'd rather say "OK, that's it for this session guys. We're in town and you have a chance to sell loot and buy things, so make sure to make those decisions and have your character ready to play for the next game."

 

[Gentlegamer]

Kill the shopkeep and take his stuff.

OR

Charm the shopkeep to get the "friend price"

OR

The rogue steals whatever is wanted

 

[Aage]

Saga has haggled rolled into persuasion (basically intimidate + diplomacy)... So haggling might be included in a skill in 4e. Streetwise sounds like a good bet, so does persuasion (if there is such a skill)

 

[Anthtriel]

As much as I look forward to 4E and critize 3E grognards, in this area I'm apparently a 2E grognard. Social interaction rules always felt odd to me. In my groups we often forgot, after a while on purpose, to roll any dice in social interaction, because it just seems so odd to roll dice in the middle of roleplaying to determine the result, virtually unaffected by what was actually said. And that's not just limited to 3E's poor diplomacy rules, but also other systems, that are more sophisticated in that area.
You can work around this of course, by rolling first and then acting depending on the result, but that may force you to do something your character wouldn't do.

But yeah, for common items (normal equipment at first, common magic items in big enough cities), I often let buying happening off-screen, with only important purchases played out.

 

[Hella_Tellah]

The rules are in Complete Adventurer.

Cheers!

Thanks! I can't believe I had been missing that for so long. I still like Scribble's way better, though .

 

[FireLance]

As much as I look forward to 4E and critize 3E grognards, in this area I'm apparently a 2E grognard. Social interaction rules always felt odd to me. In my groups we often forgot, after a while on purpose, to roll any dice in social interaction, because it just seems so odd to roll dice in the middle of roleplaying to determine the result, virtually unaffected by what was actually said. And that's not just limited to 3E's poor diplomacy rules, but also other systems, that are more sophisticated in that area.
You can work around this of course, by rolling first and then acting depending on the result, but that may force you to do something your character wouldn't do.

I'm pretty much in favor of systems in which the player decides what the PC does, but the dice determine how well the PC does it. It's like in combat - the player decides whether to attack (and who to attack) and the attack roll determines whether or not the PC hits. In an equivalent social encounter, the player may decide what to say, or what arguments to use, but the dice determine how convincing the PC actually is.

I know it's kind of jarring when a player who is an extremely suave and persuasive lawyer in real life puts together a compelling argument and then rolls so low that his barbarian PC gets a negative Diplomacy check due to his Charisma penalty. On the other hand, we don't bat an eyelid when the same PC bends iron bars with a high Strength check when the actual player can't open a stuck door without help. Good or bad, the player isn't his character.

 

[SSquirrel]

Charm the shopkeep to get the "friend price"

This really didn't work so well for Qui-Gon Jinn

All it takes is for one fat lil flying shopkeeper to be immune and the whole party is in jail. Which means, the DM has you all together in jail to earn your way to freedom by doing a task for the city.....hmm, on second thought, go ahead and charm the shopkeeper