D&D 5E TftYP - Against the Giants

[pukunui]

[MENTION=3555]Stormdale[/MENTION] is correct - all the old modules had the barest bones of any "plot", in a very short intro, but also scattered through the module text.

It's not the lack of plot that bothers me really. I'm talking more about the nonsensical stuff that left me scratching my head and thinking "Why is that there?" or the similar. Like the mind control potion in the head maid's chest, or the note from the BBEG hidden in a stack of firewood.

I think any word that describes the design of G1 as amateurish or primitive or the like lacks perspective ...

Absolutely. I was born in 1981. I didn't start playing D&D until the mid 90s, and I've never played these modules in any edition. I am very much judging these by today's standards, and I don't feel they stand the test of time very well. The same might be said of today's adventures in 40 years' time.


I think the point I am trying to make is that perhaps WotC was a little *too* faithful to the originals in some cases with these conversions, and while I'm just ragging on G1 here, it's not the only one that I take issue with. I don't think it was a good idea to include Shatterspike's object sundering trait in the conversion of The Sunless Citadel, since it goes against 5e's "you can't target/harm objects that are being worn or carried" paradigm.

 

[MackMcMacky]

It's not the lack of plot that bothers me really. I'm talking more about the nonsensical stuff that left me scratching my head and thinking "Why is that there?" or the similar. Like the mind control potion in the head maid's chest, or the note from the BBEG hidden in a stack of firewood.

Absolutely. I was born in 1981. I didn't start playing D&D until the mid 90s, and I've never played these modules in any edition. I am very much judging these by today's standards, and I don't feel they stand the test of time very well. The same might be said of today's adventures in 40 years' time.


I think the point I am trying to make is that perhaps WotC was a little *too* faithful to the originals in some cases with these conversions, and while I'm just ragging on G1 here, it's not the only one that I take issue with. I don't think it was a good idea to include Shatterspike's object sundering trait in the conversion of The Sunless Citadel, since it goes against 5e's "you can't target/harm objects that are being worn or carried" paradigm.

What has stood the test of time? What current material do you think will stand the test of time?

 

[pukunui]

What has stood the test of time?

T1 has some idiosyncrasies - like everyone and their mother having a magic weapon and lots of money hidden away - but it still holds up pretty well. (I have read both the original and the 4e version.)

There are also some old AD&D adventures from Dragon magazine that still read well. "The Crypt of Istaris" would be a good example.

I think G2 and G3 hold up pretty well. It's mainly just G1 that I take issue with. Reading through the 5e version was my first time having anything to do with it, and I came away not particularly impressed with it. It's all very subjective, I know.

What current material do you think will stand the test of time?

I have no idea!

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

How big of deal would it be just to downsize the giants to Large again? I know the maths on their damage, etc, may be off, but does it really matter?

While the AtG maps are good, other maps are just tiny. Or, like LSoT, printed awkwardly across two pages so parts of it are hidden in the binding.

Makes it almost mandatory to purchase the maps on Mike's website.

I've got a bunch of Hill Giant minis and they are large so Hill Giants are large (10x10) in my game. I have a lot of minis that are from older editions so I just go with what size they are.

 

[Luz]

As an aside, 20 Things #14: Hill Giant Steading was released by Raging Swan Press not too long ago. Could be handy for those looking to run this.

 

[Stormdale]

Slight aside- and possible spoiler ahead.

My game somehow got involved with G2 on Friday afternoon (a hook I threw the parties way and they bit) so did a rapid comparison of the G1-G3 version vs the TotYP one. Giant numbers are way down, I think I'll be adding more to beef the place up a bit.

In the upper level the numbers have declined from 39 to 15 giants. Some guard posts have changed from 4 giants to 1 for instance so I think I'll be adding a second to those positions and find a middle ground between the original and the new version.

Stormdale

 

[Henry]

The tastes were different in the 70s. The culture was more influenced by tabletop wargames and, I daresay, folks who were used to working harder to make their own fun. I think any word that describes the design of G1 as amateurish or primitive or the like lacks perspective and is attempting to judge how the game should be played very differently than the players of that time.

Also remember that in 1978 Gary and some of the others in TSR were not convinced of the value of non-toolbox supplements, so settings and modules with lots of backstory were not the norm because it was assumed all DMs were homebrewing most of their stuff, so there wasn't much impetus to put more than the barest of bones in a sale product to get the widest appeal.

 

[Eubani]

Good ideas! Thanks.

Reading through the next one, it makes much more sense, although there are still a few things that left me scratching my head. The big one is the "tokens of free passage". How are the PCs supposed to learn about them? Even if the PCs do figure this out and acquire one, just how far can it get them? Can they get all the way to the jarl without fighting with one? Wouldn't the frost giants know to whom they'd given these armbands and therefore would know that this bunch of small folk shouldn't have one?

Frost Giants admire physical strength and combat ability regardless of who it is baring it. They have been known to allow none giants who have proven themselves to join their tribes. If you can show that you can beat someone in a fair (ie no magic) show of physical/combat prowess then they will often accept you. The tokens shown could be tokens of temporary acceptance.

 

[Eubani]

The G series has a lot of assumed creature knowledge and assumes that the DM will be fitting the modules into a homebrew so it leaves most information up to the DM. This has it's pros and cons.

 

[S'mon]

I recommend giving your 'huge' giants 10' wide bases. Like every giant mini you have. Problem solved!