D&D 5E TftYP - Against the Giants

[robus]

You could go with D1-3 (Descent into the Depths of the Earth).

Or S4 (Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth) with some additional/higher level foes.

Or Maure Castle. The later would require more work if converting from the 3e version published in Dungeon Magazine.

Thanks I'll check them out!

 

[fjw70]

How big of deal would it be just to downsize the giants to Large again? I know the maths on their damage, etc, may be off, but does it really matter?

While the AtG maps are good, other maps are just tiny. Or, like LSoT, printed awkwardly across two pages so parts of it are hidden in the binding.

Makes it almost mandatory to purchase the maps on Mike's website.

Since I have a lot of large sized giant I make them a hybrid size for 5e. They are huge in hieght and for damage purposes but large in floor space occupied. Works well enough for me.

 

[devincutler]

It's not that different from the fact that in 5E, humans technically can't fit into a 3' wide corridor at all. If you stretch the rules a bit and rule that Squeezing Into Smaller Spaces lets Medium creatures squeeze into a Tiny space since Small and Medium are actually the same size, then a human can fit into a 3' wide corridor but can move only at half speed.

I guess a 5E human would be really uncomfortable in an Earth house, where 3' wide is a pretty standard hallway width for anything except a public building like a school or a hospital which is designed for two-way traffic.

So, when it comes to giants, I'd just leave the corridors at 10'-12' wide (giants can probably fit in 10' hallways comfortably) but raise the ceiling height to 30' or so. Then change the rules appropriately so that giants in 10' hallways can still move at full speed. (Disadavantage on attacks is probably fine though.)

Try fighting with a sword in that 3 foot wide hallway...while wearing armour and a backpack. Squeezing doesn't mean you are literally squeezing. It just means you cannot operate at full capacity. Put on the armour and a backpack and try to run at full speed down that 3 foot wide hallway. Probably a bit slower than a 5 foot wide hallway.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Try fighting with a sword in that 3 foot wide hallway...while wearing armour and a backpack. Squeezing doesn't mean you are literally squeezing. It just means you cannot operate at full capacity. Put on the armour and a backpack and try to run at full speed down that 3 foot wide hallway. Probably a bit slower than a 5 foot wide hallway.

Notice that I haven't criticized the "fighting at disadvantage" bit, only the movement speed reduction. Quote:

(Disadvantage on attacks is probably fine though.)

5E characters already have a built-in notional penalty for "armor and a backpack"; cutting their speed in half yet again simply for being in a normal hallway doesn't pass the sniff test. Same goes for giants.

 

[pukunui]

On a somewhat different note, the way the hill giant steading is set up really rubs me the wrong way. Maybe it's because it's the way hill giants have been presented in 5e, but the whole thing just strikes me as being far too sophisticated and civilized for hill giants. The steading comes across as an oversized barbarian chieftain's hut, with the giants living inside it just oversized barbarian humans. There are also several parts that come across as far too silly for my taste (like the "typical" giant kitchen that reads like an oversized human one). The hill giant fort in Storm King's Thunder is much more believable, in my opinion.

There's also some stuff that just doesn't make any sense to me:

- Why does the head hill giant servant (area 5) have a potion of mind control that can affect hill giants? (Also, the servants' room has no door on the map.)
- Why does the visiting frost giant leave his sentient magic sword in his room, hidden by an illusion? If that were my sword, I'd want to keep it with me at all times.
- Why do the giants have so many coins?!
- What's up with the orc slave rebellion? Is it a super-recent thing and the hill giant chief hasn't been notified about it yet? Does the Keeper not know/care about it? Surely the combined might of the giants could crush the rebellion easily. Why don't the orcs just leave? They've got access to the Underdark via that hole in the floor.
- Also, it says that the bugbear on watch west of the barricade keeps an eye out for activity to the east ... can he not see the orc guards on the east side? Do they just spend the time eyeing each other up or something? Wouldn't they at least trade threats and insults and stuff?


This whole setup just strikes me as being way too ridiculous. This particular adventure hasn't aged well, in my opinion.

 

[Eubani]

On a somewhat different note, the way the hill giant steading is set up really rubs me the wrong way. Maybe it's because it's the way hill giants have been presented in 5e, but the whole thing just strikes me as being far too sophisticated and civilized for hill giants. The steading comes across as an oversized barbarian chieftain's hut, with the giants living inside it just oversized barbarian humans. There are also several parts that come across as far too silly for my taste (like the "typical" giant kitchen that reads like an oversized human one). The hill giant fort in Storm King's Thunder is much more believable, in my opinion.

There's also some stuff that just doesn't make any sense to me:

- Why does the head hill giant servant (area 5) have a potion of mind control that can affect hill giants? (Also, the servants' room has no door on the map.)
- Why does the visiting frost giant leave his sentient magic sword in his room, hidden by an illusion? If that were my sword, I'd want to keep it with me at all times.
- Why do the giants have so many coins?!
- What's up with the orc slave rebellion? Is it a super-recent thing and the hill giant chief hasn't been notified about it yet? Does the Keeper not know/care about it? Surely the combined might of the giants could crush the rebellion easily. Why don't the orcs just leave? They've got access to the Underdark via that hole in the floor.
- Also, it says that the bugbear on watch west of the barricade keeps an eye out for activity to the east ... can he not see the orc guards on the east side? Do they just spend the time eyeing each other up or something? Wouldn't they at least trade threats and insults and stuff?


This whole setup just strikes me as being way too ridiculous. This particular adventure hasn't aged well, in my opinion.

I ran the orc rebellion as starting when word about the PC invasion filtered through. I divided most of the coinage by 10 and giants had their treasure on them and used them. The maid with the potion I ran as a plot to become the new wife and control the tribe. It all can start to make sense if you extend things a little.

 

[pukunui]

Good ideas! Thanks.

Reading through the next one, it makes much more sense, although there are still a few things that left me scratching my head. The big one is the "tokens of free passage". How are the PCs supposed to learn about them? Even if the PCs do figure this out and acquire one, just how far can it get them? Can they get all the way to the jarl without fighting with one? Wouldn't the frost giants know to whom they'd given these armbands and therefore would know that this bunch of small folk shouldn't have one?

 

[Croesus]

This particular adventure hasn't aged well, in my opinion.

Yeah, I've looked at running these for my current group, but I keep running into similar issues to those you've raised. Nostalgia tells me otherwise, but most of the old modules just aren't very good when judged by current standards.

 

[pukunui]

Nostalgia tells me otherwise ...

I've never played these adventures before, so I don't even have that!

 

[Luz]

I've never played these adventures before, so I don't even have that!

It should be understood that modules were designed with a lot of loose ends or oddities (like the armbands in G2) intentionally back then. Players were encouraged and expected to try and figure these things out for themselves, without the use of skill checks. It was more of a trial-and-error, throw it against the wall and see what sticks approach. Either players would figure it out or they wouldn't, but regardless it didn't stop them from progressing. Likewise, DMs were encouraged to develop things like the orc rebellion as they saw fit. The game had a lot of moving parts that weren't given full explanations or game mechanics, but rather ideas and hooks to use or ignore.