TH Weapon in 1 Hand

Mavrik

First Post
The RAW says that a Two Handed Weapon does STR x1.5 damage, I can 't see anywhere that says if you are able to wield that weapon in 1 hand then you do less damage

The weapon in question is a Lance, the weapon description is a TH weapon that you can wield in one hand from a mount.

Would it do STR x1 as its now a 1handed weapon, or is it still a 2H weapon that does STRx1.5 that is in 1 hand ?



Mav
 

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If you go by the actual PHB text, the lance still gets 1.5x STR damage. This is because (as you correctly stated) the weapon size is a property of the weapon, regardless of how it is used, and the damage is based off of weapon size.

Be warned, though he FAQ says the complete opposite, and many people will argue that it is correct. The FAQ is confused between the 3.0 and 3.5 rules. The FAQ ruling will also cause a myriad of problems when trying to calculate a weapons hit points.
 

Settle in for a good thread.

I think you'll find several camps. I think you'll find that the PHB and the FAQ have some very different things to say about the subject. I think you'll read in this thread many opinions on what is and what should never be (to borrow from Zeppelin).

What the heck... I'll start off with my own conclusions.

All the melee weapons on Table 7:5 in the PHB are classified as light melee weapons, one-handed melee weapons, and two-handed melee weapons. These classifications are part and parcel of the weapon. Regardless of any other factors, by the PHB rules, a greataxe of any size is a two-handed weapon. Under certain circumstances (most notably, item size category not matching wielder size category) any particular greataxe may be wielded in one hand, two, or may not be wieldable at all. Nevertheless, it remains a two-handed melee weapon as defined on page 113 of the PHB. Weapon Size: is a totally different property of the weapon and is completely independent. It is also described on page 113 of the PHB.

As you can read from table 7:5, the lance is a "two-handed melee weapon." Page 113 of the PHB rules that when wielding "two-handed melee weapons" apply 1 and 1/2 times the wielders STR bonus to damage. The special rules text for the lance says "while mounted, you can wield a lance with one hand." This is very different than saying "while mounted, the lance counts as a one-handed melee weapon." The actual rule text for lances overrides the normal condition expressed in the first sentence of the rules for two-handed melee weapons which says, "Two hands are required to use a two-handed melee weapon effectively." The lance even while being wielded in one hand remains a two-handed weapon, and deals damage as a two-handed weapon, because, as discussed above... the lance is always a two-handed weapon, and by the rules for two handed weapons, they do not deal differing amounts of damaged based on how they are wielded.

The FAQ more or less ignores the rules as written in the PHB and says that weapons do not have permanent category as described in the table 7:5 and the rules text on page 113, but rather, their qualities are purely determined by how they are wielded... except that the FAQ seems to forget that other qualities of the weapon are determined by the light/one/two classification (such as hardness and hp)... and it would seem a bit strange that the hp of your weapon could change by adding or removing hands from it's grip... or by handing it to a different sized creature.

That's my view on how it is. How should it be? That's a different matter. I don't have a simple answer to that because I think to consider it properly would require a detailed analysis of two handed styles versus two weapon styles versus mounted combat styles in conjunction with a possible reworking of feats and prestige classes. Furthermore, any such analysis and results would be firmly in the realm of house rules in my opinion.
 


Korak said:
The FAQ more or less ignores the rules as written in the PHB...

For what it's worth, the last time I queried CustServ on this, they said "We're in the process of trying to get that FAQ answer removed or changed".

For what it's worth :)

-Hyp.
 

pawsplay said:
I know I would disfavor any ruling that encouraged a charging knight to drop his lance and whip out his greatsword.

Double damage vs a .5 increase in strength? I'd still go with the lance.


Might as well bring up the bastard sword as well...

From the d20 srd:
One-Handed Melee Weapons
Sword, bastard 35 gp 1d8 1d10 19-20/×2 — 6 lb. Slashing


A bastard sword is too large to use in one hand without special training; thus, it is an exotic weapon. A character can use a bastard sword two-handed as a martial weapon.


It's a one handed melee weapon that can be used two handed with the martial weapons proficiency. Since it's originally listed as a one handed weapon, does it only get a 1x str bonus to damage if used two handed?
 
Last edited:

Korak has the summary pretty much correct.

The FAQ seems to agree with the intro text under Light, 1-handed, and 2-handed melee weapons (PHB pg 113) which states:

"This designation is a measure of how much effort it takes to wield a weapon in combat."

And using that as the application of when to give the 1 1/2 str mod to damage.

The text under lances indicates that it can be wielded one handed when mounted which, when putting that together with the text above would seem to indicate that the weapon's level of effort to use changes. Which would be similar to having its effective "size" change - but that would have been too easy to write (and also cause a lot of confusion, IMO)

Now the problem arises because the PHB is not clear enough when it talks about light, 1-handed and 2-handed weapons. It is like this is a mixture of size and difficulty of use. Not something that is supposed to "always" apply.
 

Storyteller01 said:
Double damage vs a .5 increase in strength? I'd still go with the lance.


Might as well bring up the bastard sword as well...

From the d20 srd:
One-Handed Melee Weapons
Sword, bastard 35 gp 1d8 1d10 19-20/×2 — 6 lb. Slashing


A bastard sword is too large to use in one hand without special training; thus, it is an exotic weapon. A character can use a bastard sword two-handed as a martial weapon.


It's a one handed melee weapon that can be used two handed with the martial weapons proficiency. Since it's originally listed as a one handed weapon, does it only get a 1x str bonus to damage if used two handed?


No because the text under 1-handed weapons also states that:

"If a 1-handed weapon is weilded with 2 hands during melee combat, add 1 1/2 times the character's Str bonus to damage rolls."

It would have been so much better if they would have simply stated that whenever using a non-light weapon with 2 hands in melee add 1 1/2 the character's Str bonus to damage."
 

Storyteller01 said:
Might as well bring up the bastard sword as well...

From the d20 srd:
One-Handed Melee Weapons
Sword, bastard 35 gp 1d8 1d10 19-20/×2 — 6 lb. Slashing


A bastard sword is too large to use in one hand without special training; thus, it is an exotic weapon. A character can use a bastard sword two-handed as a martial weapon.


It's a one handed melee weapon that can be used two handed with the martial weapons proficiency. Since it's originally listed as a one handed weapon, does it only get a 1x str bonus to damage if used two handed?

No, a bastard sword is a one-handed melee weapon, thus it get's 1.5 str bonus just like any other one-handed melee weapon does as described on pg 113 in the PHB.

PHB Page 113 said:
One-Handed: A one-handed weapon can be used in either the primary hand or the off hand. Add the wielder's Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with a one-handed weapon if it's used in the primary hand, or 1/2 his or her Strength bonus if it's used in the off hand. If a one-handed weapon is wielded with two hands during melee combat, add 1-1/2 times the character's Strength bonus to damage rolls.

{edit} some folks post a lot faster than I do =)
 

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