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D&D 4E The 4e human racial package: what we know

Puggins

Explorer
Supporter
Okay, so we have a couple of interesting tidbits:

* Humans definitely get a bonus feat. The poor schmuck human cleric used it on what looks to be a terrible racial feat (human perseverance) that will hopefully scale or be a prerequisite for a much better feat. I'm betting other races have their own crappy feats too.

* I'm betting humans get +2 to any one ability. The human cleric had 36 points, and (surprise!) an 18 wis. Take s off that and you have 30 points, which is what the warlock started with. Either humans have +2 wis (unlikely) or they have a +2 flex bonus.

* The cleric starts with 5 skills. The two defenders start with 4. The wizard and warlock have 4, the ranger and the rogue each have 6. Sure, leaders might get 5, but I think it's also likely that humans get a bonus skill.

Did R&C confirm either of the two last points.
 

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jaelis

Oh this is where the title goes?
What makes you say that human perseverance stinks? Bonuses to saves seem like a pretty big deal. The human also looks like he has a +1 bonus to reflex, fort, and will defenses, too. That might come from the feat too, though it might also be a human thing.
 

~Johnny~

First Post
R&C did not confirm any human crunch, but I think you've got it figured out. There's no way human perseverence is an automatic bonus feat for humans, right? That doesn't seem to be the way racial features are set up in 4e.
 

Puggins

Explorer
Supporter
jaelis said:
What makes you say that human perseverance stinks? Bonuses to saves seem like a pretty big deal. The human also looks like he has a +1 bonus to reflex, fort, and will defenses, too. That might come from the feat too, though it might also be a human thing.

If Human Perseverance also gave +1 to all defenses, then it'd be a very good feat. Otherwise... sorry, +1 to just saving throws, when you already have a 55% success chance? It'd be a "meh" feat for me, unless all feats were on the level of the dodge feat in 3.5e.
 

keterys

First Post
Bonuses to saves are very nice.

Humans and half-elves appear to get a bonus power. In the half-elves case, he took it from a different class, the wizard... dunno if the human cleric could have done that.
 


FourthBear

First Post
I definitely think that a +1 to saving throws in 4e is worth quite a lot. From all appearances, you'll be making saves every round that you're affected by a duration effect. Further, failed saves will determine if many effects not only linger, but progress and get worse (petrification, death effects and the like). It also sounds as though you'll be making saves after you drop to zero hit points to determine if you recover or die. It seems to me like you'll be making a whole lot of saves for very important things in 4e, especially since you roll the save over and save in many of these resolutions, rather than just once. Those +5%s seem like they would add up in effect over the lifetime of a character.
 

WyzardWhately

First Post
It looks to me like you'll be rolling a lot of saves in this game. A +1 to all of them would be pretty good. Especially if the "get worse/don't get worse" checks you make when in negative HP is considered a save for these purposes.
 

Atlatl Jones

Explorer
Puggins said:
* I'm betting humans get +2 to any one ability. The human cleric had 36 points, and (surprise!) an 18 wis. Take s off that and you have 30 points, which is what the warlock started with. Either humans have +2 wis (unlikely) or they have a +2 flex bonus.
All the characters are built with 28 points, except for a couple where the guy making them admitted that he miscalculated and gave them 29 points. I'm guessing that humans +2 to two abilities, probably to one physical and one mental ability of choice. If the human cleric has +2 wisdom and +2 to another ability, he comes out to 28 points.
 

FitzTheRuke

Legend
I've heard you get a feat every level, although some people have suggested every other.

Still, it makes sense to tone down feats a bit if you get 'em all the time.

Besides, I agree, having played a few sessions, that +1 saves is very, very useful.

Try failing a "stunned" save with a roll of a 9... which I've done. It sure would have been nice to have +1 saves and get to ACT the next turn!

Fitz
 

Green Knight

First Post
Atlatl Jones said:
All the characters are built with 28 points, except for a couple where the guy making them admitted that he miscalculated and gave them 29 points. I'm guessing that humans +2 to two abilities, probably to one physical and one mental ability of choice. If the human cleric has +2 wisdom and +2 to another ability, he comes out to 28 points.

Got a link to where the guy said that? And how do we know he didn't miscalculate and make the humans stats higher?

That would be a dream come true, though! I would be absolutely ecstatic if humans gained the ability to add a +2 bonus to not one but TWO stats.
 

hong

WotC's bitch
Puggins said:
If Human Perseverance also gave +1 to all defenses, then it'd be a very good feat. Otherwise... sorry, +1 to just saving throws, when you already have a 55% success chance? It'd be a "meh" feat for me, unless all feats were on the level of the dodge feat in 3.5e.
Human Perseverance IS +1 to Fort, Ref and Will. Check the human cleric's stats.
 

hong said:
Human Perseverance IS +1 to Fort, Ref and Will. Check the human cleric's stats.

Humans seem to get +1 to defences, but we can't tell if it comes from Human Perseverance or it's a human racial ability. The cleric has no racial abilities listed, and just the one bonus feat. There must be some human racial abilities bundled into the stats.
 

hong said:
Human Perseverance IS +1 to Fort, Ref and Will. Check the human cleric's stats.
It fairly obviously says +1 to saving throws, that could be misprint, but if it's not the bonus to defenses is likely a different effect, either from race or class.
 

hong

WotC's bitch
small pumpkin man said:
It fairly obviously says +1 to saving throws, that could be misprint, but if it's not the bonus to defenses is likely a different effect, either from race or class.
I suspect it's a terminology clash. 3E saving throws = 4E defenses, and they might have just used the old term forgetting that 4E also has "saves".
 

Cadfan

First Post
I'm pretty sure the feat was a misprint. The character clearly has +1 to all defenses. I doubt that's a racial ability when there's a feat right there that says nearly the same thing. Especially considering that confusing "saves" and "defenses" is probably going to be the number 1 mistake of people accustomed to 3e.

He does appear to have a bonus feat, probably selectable from any heroic tier Human Racial feats. I think its a worthwhile feat.

I would still think it was worthwhile if it were +1 to all saves though. Compare it to other heroic tier feats we've already seen. You get a lot of them, but they don't seem that huge. The Ranger's feat (almost certainly) just increases his Hunter's Quarry damage from +1d6 to +1d8. I'd rather have the defense.
 

Rpgraccoon

First Post
* I'm betting humans get +2 to any one ability. The human cleric had 36 points, and (surprise!) an 18 wis. Take s off that and you have 30 points, which is what the warlock started with. Either humans have +2 wis (unlikely) or they have a +2 flex bonus.

All characters were supposed to be built under 28 point build I remember reading somewhere the guy was sleepy and built a few characters under 29 instead.

Skamos is a 29 point built character 1 point off. +2 Cha +2 Int per Tiefling Preview Page.

So if he gets the right amount of points I'd say the human gets +2 to 2 stats
 

Colmarr

First Post
Cadfan said:
I'm pretty sure the feat was a misprint.

I don't think so at all. I think the true effect of the Human Perseverance feat is that humans get +1 to all defences AND +1 to all saves. The feat text on the pregen character sheet doesn't need to mention +1 defences because the static defence numbers already reflect it. After all, the pregen character sheets specifically say that some class and racial features have already been added.

The write-up for "Dwarven Weapon Training" doesn't mention that it adds +1 to hit and +2 to damage with hammers and axes, but we can pretty safely conclude from Kathra's stats that it does.

Cadfan said:
The Ranger's feat (almost certainly) just increases his Hunter's Quarry damage from +1d6 to +1d8. I'd rather have the defense.

Do you have a source for this? That seems like an exceedingly underpowered feat compared to some of the others we have seen. I'm more inclined to believe that it reduced Hunter' Quarry from a move action to a minor action.
 
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boolean

Explorer
hong said:
I suspect it's a terminology clash. 3E saving throws = 4E defenses, and they might have just used the old term forgetting that 4E also has "saves".
I'm guessing that the feat gives +1 to all defenses _and_ +1 to all saves. The description didn't mention it because it was already included in the printed stats.
 

keterys

First Post
I think people missed my earlier comment that humans get a _bonus power_ - the cleric has 3 at-will, and the half-elf has 3 at-will. Moreover, the half-elf's comes from a different list so the human's might have that option too.
 

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