D&D 3E/3.5 The 4E Monster Manual -- what 3.5 monsters need the axe?

[WayneLigon]

Here's my list. It probably would have saved time to say 'All outsiders except for a couple of demons and devils'. They should have their own book. Dragons, animals, vermin and a couple other catagories could be cut down some as well, if we were looking to get rid of the MM and place monsters in the DMG (which wouldn't be a bad idea).

Aboleth
Achaierai
Allip
Angel, Astral Deva
Angel, Planetar
Angel, Solar
Archon, Hound
Archon, Lantern
Archon, Trumpet
Arrowhawk
Athach
Avoral
Azer
Belker
Bodak
Bralani
Chaos Beast
Choker
Chuul
Darkmantle
Delver
Demon, Babau
Demon, Dretch
Demon, Nalfeshnee
Demon, Retriever
Destrachan
Devil, Bearded (Barbazu)
Devil, Hellcat (Bezekira)
Devil, Lemure
Devourer
Digester
Dinosaurs
Dragon Turtle
Dragonne
Drider
Ethereal Filcher
Ethereal Marauder
Formian
Genies
Ghaele
Girallon
Gray Render
Grick
Grimlock
Hippogriff
Inevitables
Kraken
Lammasu
Leonal
Lillend
Locathah
Magmin
Mephits
Mohrg
Nightshades
Nymph
Phantom Fungus
Phasm
Planetouched, Aasimar
Planetouched, Tiefling
Pseudodragon
Rast
Ravid
Remorhaz
Roc
Roper
Satyr
Sea Cat
Shocker Lizard
Skum
Spectre
Spider Eater
Sprites
Tarrasque
Tendriculos
Thoqqua
Titan
Tojanida
Triton
Xill
Xorn
Yeth Hound
Yrthak

 

[DarkKestral]

Then I don't understand it either. Can you elaborate for those of us who joined during the 3.x era and don't know where mephits come from or what they are supposed to be about? To me they seem to be just weak and annoying elementals. I've also used them as minor servants of deities, temple guardians and such. Is there more to the mephits than the MM reveals?

Yes. They're small, annoying elementals Planars use as a means of ticking other Planars off. Want to tick off your enemy? Send him a mephit. Want to tick off your enemy while also gloating? Send him another type of mephit. The more mephits you send, the stronger the message...

Beyond that, they're a good source for elemental-type wizard familiars. Elementalist wizards get no love, otherwise. Also, in Planescape at least, some of them are information brokers. (Remember: They're small and no one notices them if they're not being annoying. So if they don't annoy anyone, they make good spies. However, most are incredibly annoying. So it balances out.) Plus, they're about the only low-CR intelligent elementals around. So if you need an elemental, but don't really want to use a genie, (since they start about CR 12 and work their way up from there) mephits are a good option.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

If they do nothing else...

Get rid of the Rust Monster!

Or at least reduce its power a bit. I hope its "Oops! All your stuff is automatically, irretrievably gone!" feature is axed--tossed out along with the "save or die" bathwater. Maybe I wouldn't hate it so much if your stuff at least had a fighting chance against it; say, it merely damaged your stuff instead of instantly and arbitrarily destroying it outright.

I liked part of the concept of the mearls re-write a lot. Have its tentacles lower the hardness out of metal and other materials, let it sunder weakened stuff with its bite, and shoot a stream of corrosive goo. You have a critter that keeps the gist of the original, isnt a one round "screw you" on a stick, and is a credible threat.

 

[hong]

While I thought the Mearls ogre mage was awesome, I wasn't so much a fan of his rust monster. The problem with the rust monster is that, in essence, it's a whimsical monster. The whole point of its existence is that it's an in-joke, to screw around with people's expectations of what a threatening monster is like. If you try to make it sensible, which is what the Mearlsified rust monster was, the joke goes away and so does its reason for being.

(Naturally, the joke may not actually have been funny for any particular audience. I'm not saying the rust monster was a worthwhile element in all campaigns, but if you're going to have it, you might as well have the real thing.)

 

[Jer]

Normal animal stats? YAWN. Theres plenty int he mm1, including crap that doesnt need to be statted to begin with. Lizards, octopus, toad? Just put a movement speed and HD of "dead if attacked" and be done with it.

There's a case to be made that if you don't have a druid in the core rules, you don't need so many "normal animal" stats. Many of those animal stats wouldn't be needed in a typical game if the druid didn't have "Summon Nature's Ally" to call them down (and if you had better monsters to summon with "Summon Monster I" than a fiendish rat).

That said, some "normal animals" would be missed (by me at least). Rats, wolves, bats - normal and giant sized of each have been a staple of my D&D games since the Basic set. Sure you can put cooler monsters in there, but there's something satisfying about watching a group of players run away from giant rats...

The 4th edition monster manual needs the fun oddball monsters D&D has become known for. Beholders, displacer beasts, umber hulks, etc.

I do agree with this - no axing the "iconic D&D monsters". Somehow, I doubt that will be an issue with the current crop of developers. (Sadly, no one seems to think that the flumph is iconic.)

EDIT: I forgot to add - I would probably remove all of the unintelligent oozes from the Monster Manual and rework them more like an "Encounter Trap". You can model, say, the gelatinous cube as an encounter trap pretty easily and I think the rest of the oozes in the core MM are much the same. Move them into the DMG along with green slime and rot grubs as a things to use in an encounter trap and you free up a couple of pages.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

There's a case to be made that if you don't have a druid in the core rules, you don't need so many "normal animal" stats. Many of those animal stats wouldn't be needed in a typical game if the druid didn't have "Summon Nature's Ally" to call them down (and if you had better monsters to summon with "Summon Monster I" than a fiendish rat).

That said, some "normal animals" would be missed (by me at least). Rats, wolves, bats - normal and giant sized of each have been a staple of my D&D games since the Basic set. Sure you can put cooler monsters in there, but there's something satisfying about watching a group of players run away from giant rats...

I wouldnt include giant/dire rates in those needing to be culled or have a diminished stat block. You dont need stats for a normal spider. You do for one the size of a football.

I do agree with this - no axing the "iconic D&D monsters". Somehow, I doubt that will be an issue with the current crop of developers. (Sadly, no one seems to think that the flumph is iconic.)

I love the flumph! IMO its one of the poster children for goofy D&D monsters.

 

[Shade]

I really hope the entries for whatever races make it into the Player's Handbook don't clutter the limited space of the Monster Manual.

I sure don't want to see two different rulesets for "dwarves as characters" and "dwarves as monsters".

 

[AllisterH]

I've seen those mentioned before and I'm curious.

What are these Mearlsified (is that even proper English?) monsters? Anyone have a link...

 

[Lurks-no-More]

About tojanidas, arrowhawks, rasts etc. etc. weird elemental critters: they're fine IMO. They aren't any weirder than the xorn, after all, and it makes sense to me that the Elemental planes would have more living things on them than just elementals and genies.

 

[hong]

I've seen those mentioned before and I'm curious.

What are these Mearlsified (is that even proper English?) monsters? Anyone have a link...

Mearlsified rust monster: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20060714a

Mearlsified ogre mage: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20060721a

Mearlsified beholder: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20061028a