D&D General The 5e Ninja, would it be a class or a subclass?

[Clint_L]

whenever 'use multiclassing' comes up as the answer to build any hypothetical class fantasy my issue is that very often your desired features don't neatly fit into the two/three/whatever progressions, you end up with a bunch of other abilities that you didn't really want but couldn't not take because levelling doesn't work like that, if you want that 5th level feature you've got to take the other four levels first.

I agree. It's a balancing act with a class-based system. If you have very specific mechanical requirements for your character concept, it is almost impossible to get them exactly right within the class restrictions.

The main alternative is a skill-based system where each character is a bespoke creation. The problem with those systems is twofold: 1) they are extremely difficult for beginners to manage, and 2) you always wind up with more homogeneity, as experienced players converge on a few "optimal" builds.

Having played both, I really prefer a class-based system, despite the trade-offs you have to make, as overall you get much more variety.

To make something like "ninja" work for D&D (setting aside that they will never use that as a class name again), you have to just focus on the archetypal features that almost everyone can agree upon. What typically happens is that people get into the weeds of arguing why this or that personal preference is essential to the class. That's why, at that broad level, I don't think a new class would get any closer than what we already have in shadow monk.

The idea of a background has some merit if tied to a specific setting, I think, but waters down the concept quite a bit. A light cleric with the "ninja" background could be cool, but doesn't exactly speak to the archetype.

Edit: I think a significant amount of the "ninja" concept also comes down to your roleplaying choices, not class mechanics. To me, a monk is the obvious fit, but RPing a gloomstalker ranger, assassination or arcane trickster rogue, etc., could also easily work.

 

[Incenjucar]

Over the past week, I just watched the Octagon plus a handful of Cannon 80's Ninja films for the first time. Unarmed striking techniques played a role in those movies along with the Ninja weapons, acrobatics, stealth, and, often, the fun Ninja "toys" (e.g. smoke bombs, shuko and ashiko for climbing, tetsubishi (iron caltrops)) So, I, personally, would want unarmed striking techniques along with tripping/grappling techniques.

In PF at least, weaponless combat is pretty trivial to get. An unarmed attack is as good as a dagger, just non-lethal, and there are plenty if ways to make it lethal. The techniques (trip, grapple, push, disarm) are built in to the Athletics skill and there is a swashbuckler sub-class that specializes in them. Biggest gap is the toys.

A ninja class or subclass would probably need to have a few specialization options plus a generalist option. I see the core of the concept being "do unexpected things to bypass defenses and accomplish goals before your tricks can be adapted to". This differs from the modern rogue, who is so impossibly skilled that you can't adapt to them.