D&D General The Art and the Artist: Discussing Problematic Issues in D&D

[HammerMan]

As an American who travels to Europe a lot (not in the last two years ) it helps to do your homework. Americans (in general) are terrible vacationers. A lack of perception of local culture and sense of entitlement are often mentioned.

okay. I can do research

I try to do as the Romans when im a tourist. Its not perfect and most people will appreciate your questions because it shows you care.

If some locals have the opinion you shouldn't come at all, that is unreasonable. If it was really harmful, and a majority thought so, it would be illegal to travel. A little research upfront can make you a welcome visitor over another jerk traveller.

well since the trip in quastion is staying in the same country, it would be hard for them to make travel from one state to another illegal

(although I am jealous of you experience in Europe I have never left the continental US, infact I have spent most of my forty something years on the east coast)

Sorry my example took on a life of it's own. I will stop so the mods don't shut this.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

As an American who travels to Europe a lot (not in the last two years ) it helps to do your homework. Americans (in general) are terrible vacationers. A lack of perception of local culture and sense of entitlement are often mentioned. I try to do as the Romans when im a tourist. Its not perfect and most people will appreciate your questions because it shows you care.

You know how Americans are, Payn. They all love to travel, and then they only want to meet other Americans and talk about how hard it is to get a decent hamburger.


EDIT- Now, as to the instant subject of the OP ... a lot of the frisson in the comments generally comes from inchoate expectations of people; in other words, it is easier to argue about the principles (assuming that it says something about the person) than it is to look at the specific examples.

I think that 5e was designed, and largely succeeds in being, more inclusive than the older versions of D&D. Perhaps a more helpful question might be to think about the ways in which TTRPGs can be designed to be more inclusive so as to welcome gamers of all kinds, and the ways in which 5e does, and does not, do this.

 

[Lyxen]

As an American who travels to Europe a lot (not in the last two years ) it helps to do your homework. Americans (in general) are terrible vacationers. A lack of perception of local culture and sense of entitlement are often mentioned. I try to do as the Romans when im a tourist. Its not perfect and most people will appreciate your questions because it shows you care.

If some locals have the opinion you shouldn't come at all, that is unreasonable. If it was really harmful, and a majority thought so, it would be illegal to travel. A little research upfront can make you a welcome visitor over another jerk traveller.

While I agree that it's important, and that it's also important to consider eco-tourism as much as possible, and contact with people, unfortunately, what you are stating above is simply not good enough. The government might not ban tourism because it's a huge source of revenue, but local people might feel very differently in specific regions, where tourism is sort of forced upon them. So unfortunately, it's hard to work out.

The only way out that I've found is to find a travel agent that you can trust. I have had the luck to find two, one for around mediterranean (ended up bivouacking with camel riders right inside Petra, amongst other incredible things) and one for asia/pacific (ended up staying for a few days with my daughters in a village in north thailand with no running water or electricity, taught a lot to all of us). If you can trust them about their contacts, and follow their advice, you will have a much better experience and, as importantly, so will your hosts in the country.

Also, you have to take into account that there are jerk travellers but also jerk locals. Anecdote domain here again, but when my south african customers came to visit France a while ago, they told me that, when speaking to people on the street, they started by speaking Afrikaans, and then switched to english, to show that they were not americans, since the french local had a tendency to act like jerks towards americans...

Anywho, to bring it back vaguely to the subject of the thread... Well, I honestly can, mea culpa.

 

[payn]

You know how Americans are, Payn. They all love to travel, and then they only want to meet other Americans and talk about how hard it is to get a decent hamburger

lol tell me about it. My buddy's father only travelled to France because he was getting married. He packed pepsi and jack links beef sticks in his bags in case they wouldn't be available in Paris.

 

[MGibster]

You know how Americans are, Payn. They all love to travel, and then they only want to meet other Americans and talk about how hard it is to get a decent hamburger

Hamburg wasn't what I expected.

 

[Lyxen]

You know how Americans are, Payn. They all love to travel, and then they only want to meet other Americans and talk about how hard it is to get a decent hamburger

Another anecdote, it was an american who ended up the benefactor of the village that I talked about earlier, he had a motorbike accident, was rescued by locals, spent a few weeks recuperating, went home... and came back to spend six months teaching the whole village english, and helping them, etc. Our local guide in the jungle trek was actually one of the kids that that american had taught english to.

 

[Scribe]

no

it is a stand in... replace Orc with Group X and ELf with Group Y aand the point stands

It doesn't, to me, because if Group X and Group Y are fantastical, nothing changes.

If Group X/Y are real world people's, it matters very much.

If the implication is Orcs/Elves are standing in for Group X/Y, and X/Y are real people's or organizations then again, the premise is unacceptable.

Orcs, are not real people.

 

[HammerMan]

It doesn't, to me, because if Group X and Group Y are fantastical, nothing changes.

If Group X/Y are real world people's, it matters very much.

If the implication is Orcs/Elves are standing in for Group X/Y, and X/Y are real people's or organizations then again, the premise is unacceptable.

Orcs, are not real people.

but we are using them as a variable for REAL PEOPLE... what stand in do YOU think should work? (I thought using X Y Z was the default variable)

 

[payn]

Hamburg wasn't what I expected.

All right one more, same guy in France. My buddy's mother in law had us all over for dinner. Total gracious host. Though, it was a series of courses and drinks one after another. The old man keeps looking at his watch and is clearly annoyed that dinner was still going at 11pm. Finally, he leans over to an English speaking cousin, "dinner in America is meat and potatoes. It starts at 530pm and is over by 6pm"

 

[MGibster]

it is a stand in... replace Orc with Group X and ELf with Group Y aand the point stands

They can be. Very often science fiction writers will use aliens as stand ins to write about human issues. And there's always the plausible deniability that comes with doing so. Nah, the Klingons are aliens. Their relationship with the Federation in no way mirrors the Soviet Union's relationship with the United States and the episode "A Private Little War" has nothing to do with third world nations caught between those competing super powers.