The C&C poll

[Nifft]

Heard good things, but never read it. Some folks in my group are mechanical munchkins (especially me)... so we like 3.5e okay for now.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Hm, all you'd have to do is get the players to assign Primes, flip AC, and the PCs could be used with the listed stats.

If you wanted to you could do more conversion work - the 1e and 2e characters' stat bonuses would be different - but this isn't vital: since 1e/2e characters have higher stats than BD&D/C&C, but the stat bonuses start at 15 not 13, you're not really harming play balance by using them as written. I'd probably harmonise STR to-hit and damage bonuses though; so STR 18 (+1/+2) became STR 16 (+2), STR 18/01-50 (+1/+3) became STR 17 (+2), STR 18/51-90 became STR 18 (+3) and STR 18/91-00 became STR 19 (+3). This kind of effort isn't necessary for a one-shot but probably a good idea if running a long-term campaign.

Except there really arent rules for MC characters of various editions, since it works differently. The incarnate, with his skill boosting abilities is another odd duck. The monks from various editions are wildly different in power level, etc.

Or lets throw a martial adept in the mix. Since not everyone gets multiple attacks, the warblades comparative power level shoots through the roof, since there isnt a tradeoff between standard attack and full attack.

If Castles and Crusades works for your group, thats awesome. I'm just annoyed by the constant "false advertising" going around that you can use any D&D product from any edition with it with minimum effort as a selling point. Its no more a selling point for C&C than it is for any other game.

 

[Shadeydm]

This is largely why it seems to have a strong following. It "puts players in their place". Many DM's seem to yearn for a return to the time where players were willing to be crapped on because for whatever reason, gamers didnt have self esteem in the 80's. I loathe "suck up to the DM" style systems.

I have never even picked up a C&C book in my life but posting like this is just begging for a fight. Why go there trolling perhaps?

 

[Imaro]

First I just gotta ask...Why would PC's be making characters with different sets of rules? If you're playing C&C then they would make up characters with those rules right? I mean if my player wants to be a monk...he would be a C&C monk. Anyway, I'll assume we're talking NPC's here. Okay, here's my "quick" answers.

Except there really arent rules for MC characters of various editions, since it works differently. The incarnate, with his skill boosting abilities is another odd duck. The monks from various editions are wildly different in power level, etc.

Well if you've decided which Multiclass rules you're using for C&C the classes would be adjusted to fit those rules, right? Not sure how the incarnate works, but it seems that he could boost a prime or non-prime dependant on a specific use. Differing power levels means more XP to gain levels.

Or lets throw a martial adept in the mix. Since not everyone gets multiple attacks, the warblades comparative power level shoots through the roof, since there isnt a tradeoff between standard attack and full attack.

Again, don't have book of the nine swords, so take this with a grain of salt as I'm going by what I've read about it. You make it so that he is only allowed to use his maneuvers and stances a certain amount of times per day, since this is the model C&C is based on. We're converting to C&C so that takes precedence.

If Castles and Crusades works for your group, thats awesome. I'm just annoyed by the constant "false advertising" going around that you can use any D&D product from any edition with it with minimum effort as a selling point. Its no more a selling point for C&C than it is for any other game.

Yeah, because converting AD&D into BESM 2nd ed. is just as easy as C&C...right? It seems like you're just unwilling to admit that the issue isn't whether you can convert or not, but how much time and effort it takes to do it.

 

[Piratecat]

I have never even picked up a C&C book in my life but posting like this is just begging for a fight. Why go there trolling perhaps?

Please go reread my warning on the previous page. I have asked people to stop threadcrapping, and that requires that everyone stops responding to the earlier negative comments.

Hint, hint.

 

[ivocaliban]

When I talk to others about C&C, its about the ability to "pick up and play without learning lots of rules", "not being limited by concrete feats and skill selections but by the limits of your imagination", "faster paced play uninterrupted by constant rule checks", etc.

Again, I realize that you can get these kinds of things in 3.5 as well and I definitely like 3.5 as a system, but it just takes more work than it does in C&C.

Yes, this is all true. However, most of these things aren't as obvious from the outset to a player who has spent several years immersed in 3.0/3.5e. While fewer rules sounds great to your average GM, the streamlined play aspect isn't going be as obvious to a player until you've actually convinced the player to make a character and play C&C.

I'm sure players might actually prefer it once they've had a taste, but getting them to take that first bite is the hard part for me.

 

[moriarty777]

Except there really arent rules for MC characters of various editions, since it works differently. The incarnate, with his skill boosting abilities is another odd duck. The monks from various editions are wildly different in power level, etc.

Or lets throw a martial adept in the mix. Since not everyone gets multiple attacks, the warblades comparative power level shoots through the roof, since there isnt a tradeoff between standard attack and full attack.

If Castles and Crusades works for your group, thats awesome. I'm just annoyed by the constant "false advertising" going around that you can use any D&D product from any edition with it with minimum effort as a selling point. Its no more a selling point for C&C than it is for any other game.

Well, I guess it does depend how you go about it or what material you're using. Trying to throw a bunch of characters from other editions together for a C&C adventure is one thing. Those examples given are certainly not typical run-of-the-mill so ... yes... it would take work just like bringing them into any other game (like Rifts for example).

On the other hand, with characters created with the C&C ruleset, give me *any* D&D 3.x, OD&D, AD&D adventure and it can pretty much be run 'on-the-fly'. Is this a great and wonderful achievement? Absolutely not! Is it 'actually advertised as such' ... er... not last I checked. At best, people who use the system have remarked how much easier it was to port older AD&D material to C&C than D&D 3.x -- and as an added bonus how they are also able to incorporate some d20 material. Why? Because when incorporating from AD&D to C&C, there's so little to actually change. This is also why some people also hate C&C (mechanically speaking) because in some ways... it's too similar to the older AD&D stuff.

However, I understand what you're trying to get at. I'm sure some people will always be getting carried away when expressing certain points of views which are ultimately opinions.

Moriarty the Red

 

[TarionzCousin]

What is C&C?

Cheech and Chong!

 

[Rhuvein]

Technically, we're D&D'ers who converted to C&C.

I started my current group with the D&D Basic Game in 2004 and that introduction went very well. The players were mostly young (10-12 yrs.) and new to RPGs.

But after the short adventure was over, my players and I checked out the 3.5 handbook, and they/me realized they were not quite ready for that level of gaming.

At that time, TLG came out with the Castles & Crusades Boxed Set, which certainly caught my interest, since my intro to the game was the BD&D Holmes box.

C&C suited me perfectly as a DM, and the players loved the quick and easy char gen and rule set. The SEIGE mechanic is easy to use but powerful, and applies to so many situations.

As others have mentioned, prep time is minimal.

3 of my players still have their characters from D&D; yes Regdar, Jozan and Lidda are playing C&C!!

As a player, I had a chance to play in a 3.5 Ravenloft game last year. It was quite enjoyable, but I don't think I'd ever enjoy DM'ing that edition of the game.

 

[TGryph]

'Nother option...


Was a D&Der, am a Gurps GM who occasionally plays C&C

TGryph