The Changing Face of Reading

[chaochou]

Currently, I only find pdfs useful as a reference for something I already know. I find it close to impossible to learn a new RPG from a pfd.

Learning an RPG isn't like reading a book from cover to cover. I usually want information in a different order than it is in the book and I have to be skipping around, piecing together how the game is going to work.

If I take a new system and try and create a character using a pdf on-screen it is simply painful. I have to have a physical book.

That's not to say pdf couldn't be improved. For example, character creation in a pdf, should have inbuilt links from all the terminology which takes you straight to the page, or section, or chapter where that is explained... so you can say 'huh, what's armour class?' and click it and it takes you to that bit...

Pdfs are usually treated like a straight copy of a book. They ought to be designed as a medium in their own right.

 

[Viking Bastard]

Pdfs are usually treated like a straight copy of a book. They ought to be designed as a medium in their own right.

While I agree with you about links and such, I would counter that that's not what PDFs are for. PDFs are digital representations of print media and that's where the format's strengths lie.

An app, ebook or web service would be much more adept at doing that.

 

[GregChristopher]

While I agree with you about links and such, I would counter that that's not what PDFs are for. PDFs are digital representations of print media and that's where the format's strengths lie.

An app, ebook or web service would be much more adept at doing that.

This is precisely the blind spot that is causing the lack of innovation, Viking.

This is NOT what a PDF is.

A PDF is a portable document format. It is designed to be useful to any operating system (you can even open a PDF on your smartphone, and read it if designed properly). It can be used to simply replicate print media, or it can be used to present information in a more system-effecient kind of way.

I can write an iPad app and only people who have iPads can use it. Or I can make a PDF and everyone can use it.

PORTABLE document format. PORTABLE.

 

[knightofround]

I don't think pdf will overtake hardcopy for gaming anytime soon. Gaming publishers are too reluctant to publish pdf versions of their books for fear of pirating. And even less are willing to make the effort to format their pdf in landscape with digital bookmarking, tagging, and search features.

I think it would be wonderful to move gaming content to the digital realm. It would be much easier to learn an RPG and purchase supplements via a hyperlinked tree instead of leafing through books page-by-page. It would be incredible if someone could develop a shared tabletop grid for ipad that would allow players to move around a map uploaded by the DM (who bought it with a supplement they purchased online)

But honestly, I don't think that sort of thing is going to happen for another 5-10 years at least.

 

[Viking Bastard]

This is precisely the blind spot that is causing the lack of innovation, Viking.

This is NOT what a PDF is.

[...]

But it is. Look, you may twiddle with the formatting and layout as much as you like, but it's still just a print document onscreen with (maybe) some links and a clickable index. Despite the progress in giving us readers that are actually usable (versus the Adobe monstrosity), they are heavy and slow and the content and layout is always fixed.

Now, a properly formatted PDF, thought for the screen, is definitely much better than a standardized print layout (I just think of the Class Compendium articles in Dragon as the right direction), but it's still just a stop gap towards a real thing.

Now, ePub is nearly as portable as PDF and is much more flexible, since it's basically a HTML5 file optimized for ebook reading. You can have collapsible content, interactivity and more. ePub may not end up being the way to go, I guess time will tell, but I've seen some very impressive innovations in that arena.

 

[tenkar]

I don't think pdf will overtake hardcopy for gaming anytime soon. Gaming publishers are too reluctant to publish pdf versions of their books for fear of pirating.

The only major publisher I know of that doesn't publish in PDF is WotC. Just take a peek at RPGNow.com for the list.

 

[GregChristopher]

But it is. Look, you may twiddle with the formatting and layout as much as you like, but it's still just a print document onscreen with (maybe) some links and a clickable index. Despite the progress in giving us readers that are actually usable (versus the Adobe monstrosity), they are heavy and slow and the content and layout is always fixed.

You are confusing what you have seen PDFs do, and what they can do

 

[falcarrion]

Piazo is doing a very good job with there pdfs.
For examaple " Revenge of the Kolbald king"
When I open it with the Goodreader app on my Ipad it has an outline.
falcon's hollow
Part one: blood on the leaves
Part two : Echoes of Ages past
Concluding The Adventure
Appendix: New monster
subscribe to pathfinder modules

Now some of the outline sections have sub sets such as

Part two: Echoes of ages past which has a sub section of New weapon and Campaign seed.
Hitting any one of these sections and you go directly to that section.
I also have the option in the app to do book marks and add annotations.
And I can email it if needed.
A well designed pdf and a great app and you can do great things.

 

[Viking Bastard]

You are confusing what you have seen PDFs do, and what they can do

Ah, I know Adobe has steadily added features (partly explaining what a hideous mess their reader is) and macros and such, but the advanced features aren't really supported outside Adobe's own implementation, and thus negating the portable part.

 

[nedjer]

This is precisely the blind spot that is causing the lack of innovation, Viking.

This is NOT what a PDF is.

A PDF is a portable document format. It is designed to be useful to any operating system (you can even open a PDF on your smartphone, and read it if designed properly). It can be used to simply replicate print media, or it can be used to present information in a more system-effecient kind of way.

I can write an iPad app and only people who have iPads can use it. Or I can make a PDF and everyone can use it.

PORTABLE document format. PORTABLE.

I'm 100% with you in principle, but PDF is so last decade The innovative approach that works on tablets, opens up interactivity and customisation, and gets round all the viewing problems (by letting you control the display fully) is html. It's also the universal format on the planet and how you're going to get future D&D whether you like it or not.

There are two compliant html and tablet ready complete RPG systems available at present: D&D Insider and Treasure, but for some reason you dudes just ain't up for it.

DDI has received complaints, moans, groans and general howling; yet delivers a damned good way of accessing D&D on many levels, (it doesn't help that DDi and 4e are so huge). When, overall, it's a damned good service as a rules lookup off a fast connection.

Treasure, has all the html, autostyling at a touch, browser tools to hand, dream on a tablet you could want, . . . navigation maps, customisation, visual gameplay options . . . BUT no gizmos, heavy styling or clutter.

However, it gets a completely different reaction in D&D land compared to RPG land. For instance, I posted a low key mention of a tiny update to Treasure on RPG.NET Promos a few weeks ago knowing there'd be interest and several hundred views followed. Didn't even bother posting here.

Why the polar difference? I'd love to know, but it does seem to have something to do with formats, as on the one occasion when we put up PDFs for a while there was a rash of PDF downloads routed from ENWorld.

Incidentally, purely for the sake of badness we took the PDFs down and stuck up .docs instead, so PDF Luddites would at least have to consider putting their own pics in before burning. This backfired when emails arrived from dudes who didn't repaginate before burning and got scrumpy PDFs.

We went to each of their homes and assassinated them