D&D General The child stealing food to survive scenario, for alignment

[FreeTheSlaves]

I would presume that if you confronted an actual starving child, they'd stop, or perhaps try to run, though not in a thought out manner - and would likely be unsuccessful versus an adult pursuer.

A grab might be needed initially, but just as likely not.

If on the other hand they fled with skill and guile, they'd likely be thief guild trained with a planned route, so the theft would be both targeted and the bread non-essential.

In this case you'd need to grab to restrain.

Really, I could see many LG characters simply not getting involved. Misdemeanors are commonplace and best dealt with through the law.

 

[Flamestrike]

Meh. Theft is theft. It's a criminal act and wrong is wrong. My PC stopped a crime without doing lasting damage to the kid.

Other than tossing a warhammer at him, and the subsequent imprisonment, and cutting off of his hands or penal transportation or whatever the punishment for bread theft is.

He was stealing it because he was hungry and desperate from that hunger remember. A good person feels that pain and empathises/ sympathises with the child. They dont toss warhammers at them.

Made sense to me.

It's not your moral code we're discussing here; its the code of your PC.

Personally, I'd likely be tempted to note down in my notes (Oofta's alignment is now LN) if I was DMing. Not on account of this single act (although it does scream to me 'cares more about the law than he does about harming children' and pushes you very firmly towards moral neutrality) but on account of your other actions.

It sounds like you're be playing LN (good tendencies) rather than LG (neutral tendencies) with your whole 'break the law, suffer the punishment' black and white worldview here.

 

[Flamestrike]

CN - Tip over part of the shop keeper's cart to see what happens.
CE - Kill child, take bread.

Good lord no.

 

[auburn2]

I brought this up in the other thread because I feel it a better thing to debate about alignment, especially the LG alignment than Orc babies.

What would a character do if they caught a poor street kid stealing food from a merchant in the city? The child is obviously quite poor impoverished and in poor health, so they are likely stealing to survive or to feed their family. The city most certainly has laws that could be harsh for the child now that they are caught, in that it could either be imprisonment or the child loses a hand. What would your character do in this situation now that they caught this little thief?

I think the answer is very obvious for what a NG or CG character would do, in that they'd at least let the child go. But for LG characters this might be more of an internal conflict to them.

Pay the merchant for the food, maybe a little extra for the trouble too and adminish the child. Tell him to "get a job" so he doesn't have to steal.

2nd option for LG Paladin or Cleric - Offer to let the kid go if they convert and join your flock. They will be saved and everything in their previous life is forgiven.

 

[Oofta]

Other than tossing a warhammer at him, and the subsequent imprisonment, and cutting off of his hands or penal transportation or whatever the punishment for bread theft is.

He was stealing it because he was hungry and desperate from that hunger remember. A good person feels that pain and empathises/ sympathises with the child. They dont toss warhammers at them.



It's not your moral code we're discussing here; its the code of your PC.

Personally, I'd likely be tempted to note down in my notes (Oofta's alignment is now LN) if I was DMing. Not on account of this single act (although it does scream to me 'cares more about the law than he does about harming children' and pushes you very firmly towards moral neutrality) but on account of your other actions.

It sounds like you're be playing LN (good tendencies) rather than LG (neutral tendencies) with your whole 'break the law, suffer the punishment' black and white worldview here.

So crime should not be stopped because I don't like the punishment? This was back in Living City (dear lord, I'm getting old) and the city was always represented as being good and just. My PC may have reacted differently elsewhere, though to be honest it was a split-second decision.

The next time the kid steals something he could end up dead if the shopkeeper overreacts.

 

[Flamestrike]

So crime should not be stopped because I don't like the punishment?

That depends on the alignment of whom you ask doesnt it?

A LN person like (for example) Judge Dread (LN, however working for a dystopian LE regime) would say all crime should be punished, as would a LE Person. The LE person would favor harsh punishments and swift justice (capital and corporal punishment, kangaroo courts, no appeals etc).

A LG person however tempers his respect for the law, tradition and honour (Law) with mercy, charity, kindness and altruism (Good). He empathises with the child (who has no malice, and is only stealing because he's hungry).

LG Superman doesnt toss warhammers at children committing petty crime, or drag kids who steal bread before the authorities. LN Judge Dread certainly does however.

 

[NotAYakk]

Good lord no.

Well, sure, only if you won't get caught.

 

[DammitVictor]

Throwing a warhammer at an unarmed child?

Seriously man. Imagine watching a shopkeep toss a sledgehammer at a fleeing 8 year old.

Imagine it.

Yeah. Now imagine dozens of people just like this, who define this act as Lawful Good, calling you a "moral relativist" for arguing that their absolute, objective standards of personal morality are abhorrent nonsense.

 

[Flamestrike]

Well, sure, only if you won't get caught.

Not at all!

It makes no sense for a CE person to simply murder a child for stealing bread. They gain nothing from such an act.

Dont get me wrong here; psychotic serial killing child murderers are CE. But not all CE people are psychotic serial killing child murderers.

Rick Sanchez (CE) would find the whole thing funny. Darth Vader (CE) wouldnt care one iota, he has bigger fish to fry. Titus Pullo (CE) would congratulate the kid for his brazen theft, as would a Cleric of Cyric (who would also likely seek to recruit the kid). Even your average Gruumsh worshipping Orc (CE) wouldnt care, seeing as 'taking what you want' is totally fine to them.

 

[Flamestrike]

Yeah. Now imagine dozens of people just like this, who define this act as Lawful Good,

They're wrong.

It doesnt bother me beyond that statement. As DM I have the ability to correct them. In real life I just find them hillarious and misguided.