D&D (2024) The Cleric should be retired

[Remathilis]

At the risk of being accused of gatekeeping, someone who is uncomfortable with the idea of a fictional religion and gods should probably steer clear of D&D. These concepts are simply baked into the game itself. What next? Do you session zero magic because there are people who are uncomfortable with it in real life?

There is a bit of nuance here. I've had players who didn't have a ln issue with fictional religions but didn't feel comfortable playing a follower of one. I've allowed such players who want to be a cleric but not a worshipper of Thor* by saying they worship some generic "The Light" and leaving it at that.

* or any other fictional or mythological deity.

 

[Azzy]

While this is an interesting discussion unto itself, why is it in the One D&D forum when it has nothing to do with what we'll be seeing in the revision?

 

[CleverNickName]

Or, we could just have more rules to play with, and it would be fine. I'm using Purple Martin Game's material liberally in my Level Up games, and they have a solid 1/3 caster style divine rogue subclass with some cool abilities, my favorite being they can do the "slap a scarf around your face, and magically no one can quite remember who you were" thing.

Heck, I'd make it even easier: just talk to my DM.

Me: "Hey, so I'm thinking about picking up the Arcane Trickstster subclass..."
DM: "I sense a 'but' coming."
Me: "heh...but I want to use healing magic. Can I pick spells from the cleric list instead of wizard?"
DM: "Sure, I think that's a fun idea. Let's try it out for a few games and see if it breaks anything. We might want to look at the other features too, while we're at it...maybe the 'Mage Hand Legerdemain' ability could be used for healing spells and Medicine checks instead of pickpocketing and such."
Me: "Oh man, I didn't even think of that! That's a cool idea!"
DM: "'Magical Ambush' is probably okay but...hey you know what? Let's chat about it offline after the game."

No new rules required! Just a cool idea and a chat with the DM, and I'm off to the races.

 

[Tony Vargas]

No new rules required! Just a cool idea and a chat with the DM, and I'm off to the races.

TBF, the chat with the DM resulted in new rules.

 

[CleverNickName]

TBF, the chat with the DM resulted in new rules.

Technically true. One new rule, for one specific player's one specific character, on a trial basis....but yep. A new rule.

My point was more toward the versatility of the existing framework, but you're right: the ease with which new subclasses can be improvised and used is also a big feature.

 

[Stalker0]

The obvious advantage is that it is a fun class that has been around almost since the inception of D&D

I guess this is part of my struggle, the 5e cleric to me is so damn lame which is why I have issue justifying its existance.

We all know healing in 5e is terrible, so your healing is either as an after combat healing fountain, or as an emergency bandaid as people go down. Cleric spells are underwhelming except for a few key spells (good old spirit guardians and bless) that get spammed over and over again so much that even when I see two clerics in a game, they both are often using the same spells.

The paladin is just way more mechanically interesting as a holy warrior, the divine soul sorcerer is a more interesting spellcaster, the new celestial warlock seems to bring a lot of really neat "continuous holy power" flavor. Why play a cleric?

 

[Divine2021]

I just hope they make clerics cooler, as they were my favorite class in earlier editions (I’m old), and they are kinda lame in 5e. BG3 really drives this home, to be honest.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I just hope they make clerics cooler, as they were my favorite class in earlier editions (I’m old), and they are kinda lame in 5e. BG3 really drives this home, to be honest.

It's Clerics are better? Or it illustrates what's wrong with the 5e Cleric?

Technically true. One new rule, for one specific player's one specific character, on a trial basis....but yep. A new rule.

Well, two, use this other spell list (Bard would have also worked, and been less of a departure), and change that feature.

My point was more toward the versatility of the existing framework, but you're right: the ease with which new subclasses can be improvised and used is also a big feature.

D&D has always made a virtue of necessity that way. While classes have always been a 'straightjacket' &c, changing, adding too, or ignoring the rules has only been an issue in 3e (when the community was RaW-happy) and 4e (when it was just hard to brew new options, well, classes specificaly, that were up to snuff).

 

[Clint_L]

I’ve played Clerics when I had zero interest in religion. In my experience, most players who play a Cleric have little interest in the religion. To them, it’s no different than playing a Fighter. But they’re not uncomfortable with the setting which I think is the salient point here. If someone is uncomfortable with fictional religions and gods, they should choose a different game.

Why? Maybe they are part of a campaign that doesn't include or emphasize those elements. D&D is what you make of it.

 

[Clint_L]

I guess this is part of my struggle, the 5e cleric to me is so damn lame which is why I have issue justifying its existance.

We all know healing in 5e is terrible, so your healing is either as an after combat healing fountain, or as an emergency bandaid as people go down. Cleric spells are underwhelming except for a few key spells (good old spirit guardians and bless) that get spammed over and over again so much that even when I see two clerics in a game, they both are often using the same spells.

The paladin is just way more mechanically interesting as a holy warrior, the divine soul sorcerer is a more interesting spellcaster, the new celestial warlock seems to bring a lot of really neat "continuous holy power" flavor. Why play a cleric?

This just seems like a personal taste sort of issue. I think clerics are fantastic in 5e, much better than in previous editions. I'm not interested in my role being primarily as healer, but an extremely versatile class that can ably fight or tank, has powerful spells, and can toss in a clutch heal to save the day when needed, as a bonus action to boot? Yes, please!

No one is ever disappointed to have a cleric in the party!