D&D (2024) The Cleric should be retired

[Vikingkingq]

Heh, it is more relevant to the playtest Cleric and the 5e Cleric generally.

Ok, then why post it as a reply to me, when that's not what I was discussing?

In any case, the concept of the D&D Cleric class continues to evolve. In 1e, it began as a Christian "bishop" with a Christian military holy order, the Knights Hospitaller, for inspiration. This concept was additionally used to culturally appropriate the gods from various reallife polytheistic traditions. Figures such as Greek Apollo or Egyptian Isis became the defacto Jesus of a Christian-style church. In this context, the Drow demon Lolth is something like an anti-Jesus. 3e leaned into the polytheistic aspects, diversifying the "domains" of the Cleric class, but also normalized the "philosophical" Cleric that is nontheistic. 4e pushed hard a kind WotC "corporate branding" pantheon. 5e is trying to make sense of all of this, in a coherent, playable, fun way.

While it's true that 1e drew heavily on the medieval Church, it wasn't the only ingredient in the mix: they very explicitly were borrowing from Leiber and Moorcock and Lovecraft and anyone else they thought was cool. And yes, there was borrowing from real-life mythologies, but there was also just stuff they were making up like Corellon, Moradin, Gruumsh, etc.

The comment by @kunadam feels poignant. The concept of a D&D cleric is moreorless nonexistent in literature that is unrelated to D&D. But even D&D novels seem less than thrilled with the Cleric class. The Cleric tends to either be a villain or a background character for an ex-machina healing. Neither characterization convey a enthusiasm about the Cleric class.

Again, I think this is only true if you have a very restrictive definition of "a D&D cleric" and "D&D novels." Also, the Cleric Quintet isn't about the Drow - the protagonist is a human cleric and their nemesis is their evil wizard father.

 

[Yaarel]

Again, I think this is only true if you have a very restrictive definition of "a D&D cleric" and "D&D novels." Also, the Cleric Quintet isn't about the Drow - the protagonist is a human cleric and their nemesis is their evil wizard father.

Heh, by "Salvatore" Quintet, I thought you meant five books about the Drow.

Do you know if the Cleric Quintet is the only D&D book series that features a Cleric as the protagonist?

 

[MockingBird]

I felt that Thoros of Myr was a good look at a D&D style cleric. It's a shame we don't get more screen time from him.

 

[Vikingkingq]

Heh, by "Salvatore" Quintet, I thought you meant five books about the Drow.

Do you know if the Cleric Quintet is the only D&D book series that features a Cleric as the protagonist?

Ok, that clears things up considerably.

I think this reddit thread might help.

 

[James Gasik]

Heh, by "Salvatore" Quintet, I thought you meant five books about the Drow.

Do you know if the Cleric Quintet is the only D&D book series that features a Cleric as the protagonist?

As the main protagonist, yes, but the Pool of Radiance series had a Cleric protagonist.

 

[wizard71]

Honestly if a class needs to go it’s the paladin. The cleric is the original holy warrior that is adaptable to any culture. The Paladin is originally a very narrow interpretation of Christian ideals and with the de-emphasis of alignment has no real niche in the game.

 

[payn]

Honestly if a class needs to go it’s the paladin. The cleric is the original holy warrior that is adaptable to any culture. The Paladin is originally a very narrow interpretation of Christian ideals and with the de-emphasis of alignment has no real niche in the game.

Paladin never should have been a full blown class. Its definitely in prestige territory, IMO.

 

[Gorck]

D&D was created in 1974, so Clerics aren’t even 50 years old yet. In 15 years, when they’re 65, then they can retire. Honestly, if they had saved up more money rather than giving alms to the poor, they probably could have retired earlier. But they clearly didn’t have a good financial advisor to warn them against that.

 

[Vikingkingq]

D&D was created in 1974, so Clerics aren’t even 50 years old yet. In 15 years, when they’re 65, then they can retire. Honestly, if they had saved up more money rather than giving alms to the poor, they probably could have retired earlier. But they clearly didn’t have a good financial advisor to warn them against that.

Heh, I remember I was playing a Paladin in a party with an Artificer who was only in it for the money - when we got a big financial reward for saving a bunch of people, I took my share of the reward and donated it to a refugee charity right in front of him just to see his reaction.

 

[kunadam]

Honestly if a class needs to go it’s the paladin. The cleric is the original holy warrior that is adaptable to any culture. The Paladin is originally a very narrow interpretation of Christian ideals and with the de-emphasis of alignment has no real niche in the game.

Paladin was this narrowly defined class, but clerics were also narrowly the mace swinging Templar/Hispitaler type of christian holy man. In 5e with oaths paladin is more of a champion of a cause. Arcana Unearthed / Arcana Evolved (from Monte Cook) has a champion class which is actually a much better version of the paladin concept than any TSR/WotC version ever was. The paladin has a clear role.

The cleric also has a clear role. And organized religion is all around the world. But the questing / adventuring cleric has next to no literaly backup. The holy man, seers, diviners, healers mostly stay in one place, and the protagonist(s) visit them if needed. They could be key to the story, but rarely go out to do the stuff directly.