D&D General The Crab Bucket Fallacy

[Snarf Zagyg]

He highest satisfaction class in the playtest was Rogue.

Fighter was most popular but a loud percentage of the fanbase was unsatisfied with every version of it.

That's why the 2013 playtest fighter was revised from the ground up at least 5 times.

It is literally the Psions problem.

No, you're discussing the playtest.

I am talking about what people choose to play in the real world.

I appreciate that you want a different fighter. I always want people to get what they want. At a certain point, though, you should also recognize that not only are there people with different preferences than you, but that in actual play the fighter is the most chosen character class.

Also? Not the "psion problem." Because, as we all know (and some, such as me, lament), the problem is that the psion just isn't that popular overall, in addition to the fact that the fans who like it have differing opinions. But it is odd to compare the single most popular class to a class that ... doesn't even exist in 5e. So, not "literally" or even "figuratively" the same.

 

[payn]

Makes you wonder what WotC values more: popularity or satisfaction? In the case of the fighter it seems to be option 1.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

But the Wizard does automatically have all these social options. They just can choose not to pick them up, if they aren't interested. The Fighter does not get that choice. It is denied to them. THAT is the issue here.

Okay. So what? Why is it an issue? The fighter can’t fly either. And again, charm person sucks compared to being decent at persuasion.

You are advocating for forcing Fighter fans to never get that option. As they consistently have been--well, in all but the perennial exception to D&D trends.

I’m definitely not. I don’t care if fighters have a special fighter feature that makes them good at social challenges because they’re a fighter. They can be good at them, that is all that matters. If a fighter player wants to be especially good, there are subclass options and feats.

There is no out of combat situation where anyone can say, "Man, it's so good you played Fighter and not something else!" That, right there, is the problem.

Why is that a problem? Explain.


What’s more, why are we having this conversation as if Only the 2014 phb exists? As if a new PHB with broader options for fighters in it won’t be out next year?

How does this even relate to the OP?

 

[Minigiant]

No, you're discussing the playtest.

I am talking about what people choose to play in the real world.

I appreciate that you want a different fighter. I always want people to get what they want. At a certain point, though, you should also recognize that not only are there people with different preferences than you, but that in actual play the fighter is the most chosen character class.

Also? Not the "psion problem." Because, as we all know (and some, such as me, lament), the problem is that the psion just isn't that popular overall, in addition to the fact that the fans who like it have differing opinions. But it is odd to compare the single most popular class to a class that ... doesn't even exist in 5e. So, not "literally" or even "figuratively" the same.

The other classes doesn't exist in the real world officially..

That's the whole point of this thread.

The type of fighter the majority of the 5e community wants doesn't exist in 5E. It will require an additional 1 to 4 new classes.

But WOTC will not add new warrior classes. And most DMs are wary of 3PP classes that lack massive playtesting or online discussion.

 

[payn]

The other classes doesn't exist in the real world officially..

That's the whole point of this thread.

The type of fighter the "majority" of the 5e community wants doesn't exist in 5E. It will require an additional 1 to 4 new classes.

But WOTC will not add new warrior classes. And most DMs are wary of 3PP classes that lack massive playtesting or online discussion.

What is this based on now?

 

[Stormonu]

Makes you wonder what WotC values more: popularity or satisfaction? In the case of the fighter it seems to be option 1.

I think that's more a problem with the fanbase. WotC seem to want to make it viable, but they have to contend with what the surveyors feels right. They could have just gone "this is what you're going get, lump it" - but they want a version people will actually want to use.

Personally, I suspect no small percentage of those responding to the surveys are doing so via white room hot takes rather than actually taking the class out for a spin and coming back to comment on how it actually plays. No proof, just a feeling.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The type of fighter the majority of the 5e community wants doesn't exist in 5E. It will require an additional 1 to 4 new classes.

Prove it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The other classes doesn't exist in the real world officially..

That's the whole point of this thread.

The type of fighter the majority of the 5e community wants doesn't exist in 5E. It will require an additional 1 to 4 new classes.

But WOTC will not add new warrior classes. And most DMs are wary of 3PP classes that lack massive playtesting or online discussion.

Seems like that's kinda on those DMs to me.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

The other classes doesn't exist in the real world officially..

That's the whole point of this thread.

As previously noted, I disagree with the "point" (premise) of this thread.

The type of fighter the majority of the 5e community wants doesn't exist in 5E.

(citation needed)

 

[overgeeked]

I think that's more a problem with the fanbase. WotC seem to want to make it viable, but they have to contend with what the surveyors feels right. They could have just gone "this is what you're going get, lump it" - but they want a version people will actually want to use.

Personally, I suspect no small percentage of those responding to the surveys are doing so via white room hot takes rather than actually taking the class out for a spin and coming back to comment on how it actually plays. No proof, just a feeling.

And the trouble with that is the people who want the clear imbalance to continue also get to vote. Anything that would reign in the casters or marginally buff non-casters gets voted against. Luckily the weapon properties were an overwhelming hit that they got through. But the casters still get buffed, too. Like wizards being able to swap prepped spell with one-minute of reading.