D&D General The Crab Bucket Fallacy

[Tony Vargas]

So how close to a Warlord in terms of ability can one get using the various extant classes like Cleric, Bard, and Paladin and just ignoring that they're using magic?

That's like asking how close a Thief with the Charlatan background could get to wizard if you just ignored that they have no spells.

But, if you're talking ability, not concept, Cleric and Bard far exceed the ability of a faithful 'port of a 4e Warlord, they do everything it reasonably could when translated to 5e, and far more, besides. The Paladin would just give you too much offense, via Extra Attack and Smite.

 

[Scribe]

I'm not sure the sword and board fighter is to happy though he rarely gets fed an attack.

"No, you give me your Tricks of the Trade."
"No, I need your Hysteria!"

Wrath babies remember.

 

[Cadence]

That's like asking how close a Thief with the Charlatan background could get to wizard if you just ignored that they have no spells.

But, if you're talking ability, not concept, Cleric and Bard far exceed the ability of a faithful 'port of a 4e Warlord, they do everything it reasonably could when translated to 5e, and far more, besides. The Paladin would just give you too much offense, via Extra Attack and Smite.

I was thinking ability, not concept.

I was kind of wondering what the Venn diagram is of those who are great with making high level fighters not "mundane" and those who really need a "mundane" warlord (or alternatively, those who need "mundane" martials and those great with alternative solutions to Warlord) - but didn't want to tempt myself going through all the threads to find out, or to make a poll, if it couldn't be done.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I was thinking ability, not concept.

I was kind of wondering what the Venn diagram is of those who are great with making high level fighters not "mundane" and those who really need a "mundane" warlord (or alternatively, those who need "mundane" martials and those great with alternative solutions to Warlord) - but didn't want to tempt myself going through all the threads to find out, or to make a poll, if it couldn't be done.

In 5e, the deal is mainly spells, spells are a very specific mechanic, that is very explicitly magical, comes thru the Weave, can't be cast in anti-magic zones, etc. Not using spells makes a class not magical, but needn't make it remotely mundane - whether it's a hypothetical martial that performs feats of superhuman strength/luck/skill/etc or a hypothetical psionic using a supernatural power like telekinesis. That's prettymuch a quality of 5e and it's obsession with spells (every class uses spells in some way, even just in the PH), other editions have broader or narrower de-facto litmus tests for magic implied by their mechanics.

 

[Maxperson]

I guess it's time for me to introduce a new fallacy into this thread. I call it..........................................The Chum Bucket Fallacy. If you don't like Sponge Bob, none of your posts or opinions can be correct.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Have you ever seen Hero System? Stats have different costs based on how powerful they are. DEX costs triple what STR or INT cost, for instance. Or is it not adventurey enough?

Of course, that there are better games out there doesn't matter when 'most everyone enters the hobby thru the current ed of D&D...

The mantra of many at this point is that is a solution involves math beyond adding one number, it is functionally impossible.

 

[Neonchameleon]

The mantra of many at this point is that is a solution involves math beyond adding one number, it is functionally impossible.

I've a degree in maths. I can handle most things in my head. But that doesn't mean I consider it good design.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I've a degree in maths. I can handle most things in my head. But that doesn't mean I consider it good design.

Then we need to remove dice and move to a coin flip system.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Then we need to remove dice and move to a coin flip system.

Why? Reductio ad absurdam?

 

[Vaalingrade]

Why? Reductio ad absurdam?

If math is bad design, get rid of math.