D&D 5E The D&D rapier: What is it?

[Guest 6801328]

From OED:

Rapier (n.) [ray-pee-er] 1. An aberration. 2. A shameless caving to the internet clamorings of twinks, powergamers, and munchkins.

 

[Guest 6801328]

But why would anyone use arming sword over sabre in this idea? Arming sword gives nothing, yet with Sabre both str and dex fighters can use it at it's best.

Dex is a better stat than str. Hence str needs a boost in combat. That is more damage from weapons that are not finesse.


how about;

Sword(arming), 1handed, 1d10 Slashing, 1d12 versatile,
Rapier, 1handed, finesse, 1d8 Piercing
Sabre, 1handed, finesse, 1d8 Piercing
Sword(short), 1handed, light, 1d8 piercing,
Scimitar, 1handed, light, finesse, 1d6 slashing,
Smallsword, 1handed, light finesse, 1d6 piercing,

Longsword, 2handed, 2d6 slashing,
Greatsword, 2handed, heavy, 2d8 slashing,
Elven courtblade, 2handed, finesse, 1d12 slashing

You forgot:
Katana, 1handed, 1dInfinity Slashing, 2dInfinity versatile, light, thrown, reach, counts as magic weapon, Advantage on all Charisma skills.

 

[Ancalagon]

if rapier is 1d8, then longsword should be 1d10.

Short sword 1h 1d6 Finesse Piercing

Gentlefolks, please, step this way, you will be welcome there : http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?529884-I-hate-rapiers-Do-you

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Sabre 1d8 slashing Finesse (since it is a fencing weapon Finesse is well justified)

[MENTION=6801299]Horwath[/MENTION] Dueling style should only be allowed with fencing weapons like a rapier smallsword or sabre, imho it requires a much more sophisticated technique of fencing than an arming sword.

Just to clarify, what do you mean when you talk about "fencing weapons"? The implements used in sport fencing are rather different from the actual weapons that they originated from.

But that aside, your Long sword imho is a bastard sword or Hand and half.
It has the same weight and less bladelength than a rapier -

More control and requires less strength to use effectively though. Plus better against armour.

But a thrust wound that does any noticable damage is most often a more severe injury than a small cut because it is a deeper wound, so the 1d8+2 vs 1d10 for a range of 3-10 instead of 1d10 is even realistic

That kinda gets into the discussion about "What do Hit Points represent?" Thrusting wounds are more likely to lead to eventual death in the absence of magical healing. However in terms of dropping or disabling a foe immediately; - as you are fighting them, cutting weapons have an advantage.
- Of course the rapier-type swords were still capable of cut-and-thrust, and the historical longsword is used to thrust - often more than to cut. So D&D's separation into distinct damage types by weapon doesn't fit that well either.

Longsword, 2handed, 2d6 slashing,
Greatsword, 2handed, heavy, 2d8 slashing,
Elven courtblade, 2handed, finesse, 1d12 slashing

Why would anyone other than a Halfling use a longsword there? The Greatsword has the advantage of both higher damage, and being able to use the GWM feat with it.

The concept of a two-handed finesse weapon makes me a little twitchy from a realism point of view. I can't really see an issue in terms of game balance though.

 

[Ancalagon]

Something like the 3rd or last photo is generally what I think of when thinking of a rapier.

So the Spanish blade and the bilbo? Is it because of the cup hilt? Because let me tell you, these weapons would handle *very* differently in a fight. The bilbo would be a good weapon for an adventurer to have. It's not too long and can deliver both trusts and cuts. The Spanish one... not so much. This is the point of this thread - what kind of rapier are D&D adventurers using.

(as an aside, the bilbo was thus name because of its city of origin, Bilbao, a basque city in Spain, so it's Spanish too)

 

[Coroc]

@horwarth

Now you are making a kuddle muddle of this all!

An arming sword has a 1 handed grip it cannot be versatile.

A sabre / saber is a curved slashing weapon it is the Standard weapon of most cavalry from about 18th century onwards it is very related to scimitar, tulwar or messer, it has nothing to do with the olympic sports saber, which is a foil and has most resemblances to a smallsword.

A Greatsword with 2d8 in your Definition beats every other weapon damage wise, which i highly unrealistic and unbalancing the game mechanics . See it that way: worst damage short of a decapacitation you can do with a slashing weapon is cutting of a limb. And you can do this with almost any cutting sword. The damage you do with this action is the same, no matter the size of the tool behind it.

Your elven court blade is a nice gimmik, but for me i rather give the elves skill in rapier instead of D&D Long (aka RL bastard sword), and if elves need a special blade it rather be a moonblade which is some curved design especially.

The body of an elf is not very suited for swinging (slashing) weapon movement, if they would exist in the real world they would prefer stabbing weapons .

 

[Coroc]

[MENTION=6802951]Cap'n Kobold[/MENTION]

With fencing i do not mean modern Sport fencing of course, but rather historic fencing from the treatises. It uses parries and guards and footwork instead of blocking the oncoming slash from e.g. an arming sword with a shield.

 

[Horwath]

@horwarth

Now you are making a kuddle muddle of this all!

An arming sword has a 1 handed grip it cannot be versatile.

A sabre / saber is a curved slashing weapon it is the Standard weapon of most cavalry from about 18th century onwards it is very related to scimitar, tulwar or messer, it has nothing to do with the olympic sports saber, which is a foil and has most resemblances to a smallsword.

A Greatsword with 2d8 in your Definition beats every other weapon damage wise, which i highly unrealistic and unbalancing the game mechanics . See it that way: worst damage short of a decapacitation you can do with a slashing weapon is cutting of a limb. And you can do this with almost any cutting sword. The damage you do with this action is the same, no matter the size of the tool behind it.

Your elven court blade is a nice gimmik, but for me i rather give the elves skill in rapier instead of D&D Long (aka RL bastard sword), and if elves need a special blade it rather be a moonblade which is some curved design especially.

The body of an elf is not very suited for swinging (slashing) weapon movement, if they would exist in the real world they would prefer stabbing weapons .

Greatsword already beats any weapon in damage.

I just bumped up damage of all non finesse weapons by one die step because of reasons stated earlier; dex is more powerfull than str and there should be a cost to a weapon that can be used in finesse way. Damage drop.

Elven courtblade could be a variation of elven 2handed blades from LotR: https://youtu.be/BjJvOm94W5U?t=147
about the length of longsword but lighter, shorter blade and longer handle for better and faster movement of weapon.
[MENTION=6802951]Cap'n Kobold[/MENTION], yes in the end longsword would be only for small characters or low level mooks as longsword would be 7-8 times cheaper than greatsword or you do not want to give CR 1/2 creatures ability to oneshot 1st level barbarian.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

[MENTION=6802951]Cap'n Kobold[/MENTION]

With fencing i do not mean modern Sport fencing of course, but rather historic fencing from the treatises. It uses parries and guards and footwork instead of blocking the oncoming slash from e.g. an arming sword with a shield.

OK. Which leads me to ask the question again: What do you mean when you talk about "fencing weapons"? Once you take their use in modern sport fencing out of the equation, then you just have "weapons".

There are historical treatises detailing footwork, guards, parries etc for most weapons including poleaxes, arming swords, two-handed swords (lots), axes, chopping swords, katana and so on. Pretty much any weapon used in a martial art will have treatises about the system of use: - its part of what makes it a martial art.

 

[Hriston]

This is the point of this thread - what kind of rapier are D&D adventurers using.

I don't see why it needs to be any kind of historic "rapier" at all. Also, I think my solution's the best. Making rapier the generic sword explains why it's an optimal choice for sword and board combatants whether based on STR or DEX.