The deadliest CR 18 in the world, courtesy of WotC

[kwiqsilver]

Hey, everyone. I was looking at a monster just released on the Wizards website- the Steel Dragon. At first glance, it seems interesting- then I realized it's insane.

I'd say it's quite a bit more than 18, but it's pretty do-able for a prepared party.

AC of 44

A good 18th level fighter should have a total attack bonus of nearly 40.

DR of 10/Magic

Immaterial at this point.

Huge Sized

So they hit two points easier and have a +2 ac difference. They also lose half their reach. They're probably not as strong or tough as a Colossal dragon, and they get fewer damage dice.

It's got two breath weapons- a line of acid (12d6)

Resist Energy: Acid Resistance 30. Combined with an Energy Substituted Fire Shield and a perfect damage roll with a failed save means a measly six points of damage. Many L18 arcane casters will have Energy Substitution, if not it might cost a few extra bucks to get these on scroll, but it can be done.

Cone of Poison

Buy a bunch of scrolls of Neutralize Poison, cast one per character before the fight. 70 minutes of poison immunity for 1000gp a pop.

It casts spells as a 21st-level Sorcerer.

The normal anti-sorcerer tactics apply. Plus if it's casting, it can't use draconic abilities.

It's got Spell Resistance of 38...against any 1st through 4th level spells, its Spell Resistance is 48.

Don't affect it directly. Buff the other members, keep them alive, haste them, block it with walls of force, summon elder elementals to bash it or grapple it, etc.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I'd say it's quite a bit more than 18, but it's pretty do-able for a prepared party.

It is not unusual for an unprepared level n party to defeat a EL n+2 or even EL n+3 opponent. Or a well-prepared party to prevail against EL n+4 opposition, possibly even EL n+5.

What level party do you think could crush this dragon with no preparation as a warmup exercise? Or defeat a group of 4-5 of these beasties?

 

[Coredump]

I'd say it's quite a bit more than 18, but it's pretty do-able for a prepared party.

But thats the point. A party of 4 18th level PC's shouldn't *have* to specifically prepare for a CR 18 encounter.

Wake up, do common morning buffs etc. walk into random cave dungeon, open random door, find CR18 creature, expend 20-25% of resources bringing it down, go to next door.

If this dragon is in that random room, do you really think they can take it out that easily??


Now, it is possible (possible mind you) that the designers use 'lower' CR's for dragons because you are expected to know about them. Their notoriety means you will almost always get a chance to prepare for them... but I may be stretching...

 

[Contrabassoon]

Have you read the (pre-release) playtesting notes?

Sounds like a fun read. Where do you find 'em?

 

[Lamoni]

I'd say it's quite a bit more than 18, but it's pretty do-able for a prepared party.

It may be doable with 4 level 18 characters, but that doesn't say that the CR shouldn't be higher...

oh wait...

you already said that. You said that you think it is quite a bit more than a CR 18. Well then, we all agree.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

[rebuttal]

I know I'm discussing tactics now, but equipment becomes pretty irrelevant when the Dragon can cast Disjunction 6 times per day, and, yes, there are, for both sides, somewhat cheesy tactics to take out pretty much anything in record time, if you can prepare.

AR

 

[Destil]

3.0 was well-known for under-CR'd dragons.

The final (and still quite a bit under CRed) CR for that bad boy was 17 in the MM... what I'm getting at is that it's clearly been pretty damn loopy from the get go with reguards to dragons.

 

[Darklone]

Just exactly what would keep a druid from polymorphing into something very big and grapple this dragon to death if it's "only" Huge??

Hmmm... shapechanging into a steel dragon... huhm...

 

[UltimaGabe]

Just exactly what would keep a druid from polymorphing into something very big and grapple this dragon to death if it's "only" Huge??

Well, I figure the Dragon would have something to say about that.

Anyway, you can only shapechange into something with as many Hit Dice as you, so there aren't many things and 18th-level party will be able to turn into that would be useful against this thing. Remember, most monsters have much more Hit Dice than their CR.

 

[James McMurray]

Damn, they really need a Lower Resistance spell for 3.X edition. Working just like the old version against magic resistance.

No saving throw, creature effected gets half-SR to avoid being effected by this spell. Their SR is lowered by 1 per 2 levels of the caster.
Make it a fifth level spell, lol.

Calrin Alshaw

Lower Spell Resistance (Draconomicon). IIRC its 4th level, lowers the target's SR by 10, and allows a save. The save is penalized by the caster level of the spell though, so generally speaking by the time you need this spell, the penalty will almost completely remove the save rom the spell anyway.