The DM Burnout and How to Get Past That: Advice?

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

I have to add my 2 cents here as well, if your players aren't into your kind of game then you have to try to come to a compromise in a kind of game you all like to play even it it means changing genres or systems. If a compromised can't be reached, you need to find a new group of players either in person or online as suggested by pretty much everyone so far. I know stuff like this is hard to do if you've been friends with them for a long time, but as a DM the game needs to be fun for you too, if you aren't having fun it's not worth your time.

 

[Umbran]

Not to say that what other people have suggested is wrong, or won't ultimately end being what you have to do to keep your gaming sanity, but I want you try this first - punish your players bad behavior.

Caveat: Talk to your players about what "bad behavior" is, first.

Nothing breeds ill-will faster than a feeling you've been ill-treated, punished for little reason. Suddenly slapping someone without warning, for something they've been doing for years, is apt to make them think you're being a jerk.

Changing the game and/or setting might not be a bad idea. Especially if you switch to a system in which combat is not necessarily the best way to resolve an issue.

I run Deadlands as my primary campaign these days, and I'm using the original rules, not the Savage Worlds version. In this game, I'm lucky to see one combat a session, even though my group is half gun-bunnies. Why? Because combat is really risky. It is pretty easy to get killed or permanently maimed, so solutions short of combat are often preferable.

 

[Swedish Chef]

I suffer from burnout. I've discovered over the years that I like more RP and less hack and slash. But my players are still well in the h/s mode of thinking. I know I'm not going to change them. So I've got two solutions.

1) Run modules. I grab something that will suit their style of play and just run with it. They happily follow the plot and slay things whenever possible. I'm not invested in any of the NPCs or the villages or anything like that because I haven't spent hours setting it up. So if they want to wipe out a village, they can. There are consequences, but I don't get stressed over it.

2) I told them straight up I wasn't running any more and that someone else had to take over. Out of 7 players, 3 stepped up. Each ran a campaign and we all had a lot of fun. Then I took back the reins for a short campaign before passing it on again. This has helped me more than anything else - getting a chance to play. This way I can role play to my heart's content and every one else still can hack and slay as they want. I try and inspire by example. My current character is a specialist wizard (Transmogrifier). The rest of the group has been pleasantly surprised to learn that wizards/sorcerers can do more than just lob fireballs and magic missiles. In fact, the only offensive spell I currently know is Gravity Bow (pathfinder). All other spells are buff spells. But the fighters love them! Nothing like Enlarge on a half orc barbarian just before he rages!

 

[Stumblewyk]

Caveat: Talk to your players about what "bad behavior" is, first.

Yeah, this is important...don't just drop this on them unannounced - make it clear that you don't want to run a game where the PCs feel free to run about pillaging and indiscriminately slaughtering people left and right. And if that's what they're going to do, then you are prepared to use in-game methods to curtail that behavior.

 

[scourger]

...you might consider running either a different genre or game system...For example, if you play a bit of Deadlands (Savage Worlds)...

This approach worked for me. Savage Worlds is such an easy system to run that I spend much, much less time on mechanical preparation. Then, I am really freed to focus on the story development. Conflict (combat) then feels more poignant as a function of the story. Try it free. http://www.peginc.com/Downloads/SWEX/TD06.pdf

You might even try really embracing the "bad" style of play you are burned out on and run a game like ORK!. Let the players play their orks and make the story about the hard choices they face along the path of slaughter & ruin. I have a great little game idea called Ork of the Ring that pits the orkish PCs against a hobbit, a wizard, a ranger, an elf and a dwarf. That way, it still feels like I am developing a story and they get to revel in an aspect of the game that is fun on a certain level. Green Ronin Art Gallery

Similarly, you might try a game like Gamma World. You can run the combats like a war game as you describe your players liking but thread together the actions sequences with the story. It is super easy to run, too; being a streamlined edition of 4e. Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Product (D&D Gamma World Roleplaying Game)

Otherwise, get some DMing guide books like Robin's Laws of God Gamemastering for tips on how to keep play fun for different style of players. Robin's Laws of Good Gamemastering

 

[molepunch]

Wow, first of all, thank you all, fellow DMs and players alike, for your perspectives and input! Thanks for taking the time to post your suggestions and thoughts. I'm new at ENWorld so I'm not sure about the XP etiquette--i.e. am I allowed to XP all of you out of pure gratitude, heh!



I sent an email to the gang with some of the suggestions, namely, perhaps switching to a "pretzel and beer" Dungeon Delve night with everyone taking turns playing the "battle AI", or trying out a new system entirely, like White Wolf or Pathfinder.

My players can understand why I'm not having fun, as my main motivation to wear the DM hat is to "watch a good story unfold". I want my players to be the catalyst and not just sit there secretly texting or playing iPhone games when it's not combat time. I feel bad that they are bored, but I'm equally bored when they zone out.

Half of them are just not keen/not able to put in energy for RP. Some of them feel that 4E doesn't require/reward RP so it's more relaxing to sit back and roll a d20 with one hand and munch on a chip with the other. When they do try to RP, they get confused or lost, and I often end up stepping in, feeding them "lines" or options to help the scene move forward. Sometimes, they make decisions that are really out of character and reeks of metagaming, and groan when I won't allow the gloss-over and start questioning them about character motivation...

Trying out a new system is "too much work" apparently. Frankly, I am not confident that I can run a game well anyway, with my barely remembering the rules (Edit: rules of an entirely new system, that is). But it is still a good suggestion to try things out.

I did however, purchase Pathfinder and am considering running the game without minis. I live in Singapore and the scant few stores here that carry gaming books don't carry Savage Worlds, sadly, so I can't really browse it. Will google that later (ahck, I'm seriously ignorant of other systems besides D&D, PF, GURPS, and White Wolf).

Maybe my buddies have a video-game mindset, often opting to "press A" to advance through the "boring NPC chat in Skyrim/Arcadia/JapaneseRPGia". Maybe I'm a lousy DM because I'm not flexible and I can't handle players who don't RP. Maybe I should be playing White Wolf or some other system instead. Maybe in the past they humored my style because no one wanted to DM.


Our next session is Tuesday night. In the email, I jotted down some things I'd like for the group to try before we decide what to do with the game. If the session falls apart, I will break out Dungeon Delve and close the campaign for now and figure out a plan B.



Can anyone please recommend *more good books about DMing? (I already have D&D DM book 2)
Can anyone please tell me how you work with non-RPing players? (it's ok if it's a no-brainer answer--it really helps to hear how other fellow DMs work)


Thanks all, and happy holidays!


*thanks scourger!

 

[IronWolf]

Can anyone please recommend a good book about DMing? (I already have D&D DM book 2)

The GameMastery Guide from Paizo is pretty good:

paizo.com - Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: GameMastery Guide (OGL)

 

[molepunch]

Sounds like the issue is not that you're tired of DMing but that what you want and what your group wants has grown apart. You want RP and you want a certain behavior from your players and they're not giving it.

You're a part of the group and you deserve to have fun too, and to enjoy what you're doing. And when you aren't, that's a problem. And when the reason you're not enjoying it is because your group is playing a way you do not like, it's not your fault.

You can either make your group play the way you like (unlikely to work), suck it up and learn to like what your group is doing (unlikely to work), or find another group that fits your tastes. And before you say "there aren't any in the area", that's what the internet is for - many of us (myself included) have been playing D&D only online for years.

Thank you for your reply and good points! I can't seem to XP you (yet)

 

[Swedish Chef]

My players can understand why I'm not having fun, as my main motivation to wear the DM hat is to "watch a good story unfold". I want my players to be the catalyst and not just sit there secretly texting or playing iPhone games when it's not combat time. I feel bad that they are bored, but I'm equally bored when they zone out.

Half of them are just not keen/not able to put in energy for RP. Some of them feel that 4E doesn't require/reward RP so it's more relaxing to sit back and roll a d20 with one hand and munch on a chip with the other. When they do try to RP, they get confused or lost, and I often end up stepping in, feeding them "lines" or options to help the scene move forward. Sometimes, they make decisions that are really out of character and reeks of metagaming, and groan when I won't allow the gloss-over and start questioning them about character motivation...

Trying out a new system is "too much work" apparently. Frankly, I am not confident that I can run a game well anyway, with my barely remembering the rules (Edit: rules of an entirely new system, that is). But it is still a good suggestion to try things out.

I did however, purchase Pathfinder and am considering running the game without minis. I live in Singapore and the scant few stores here that carry gaming books don't carry Savage Worlds, sadly, so I can't really browse it. Will google that later (ahck, I'm seriously ignorant of other systems besides D&D, PF, GURPS, and White Wolf).

Maybe my buddies have a video-game mindset, often opting to "press A" to advance through the "boring NPC chat in Skyrim/Arcadia/JapaneseRPGia". Maybe I'm a lousy DM because I'm not flexible and I can't handle players who don't RP. Maybe I should be playing White Wolf or some other system instead. Maybe in the past they humored my style because no one wanted to DM.

Can anyone please recommend *more good books about DMing? (I already have D&D DM book 2)
Can anyone please tell me how you work with non-RPing players? (it's ok if it's a no-brainer answer--it really helps to hear how other fellow DMs work)

For me, the problem started when I started reading those articles and books on being a "better" DM.

What I mean by that is this: My group has always been hack and slash. That's all we've ever really done. Sure, we "roleplay" a bit, but the only way to get them to do that is to give bonus XP rewards at the end of the session for those that roleplay (always done in secret so as not to get into arguments as to who is the "better" roleplayer). And when we started, it was great! Adventures had lots of combat! Treasure! Witty one-liners and cool battlecries! Then I started reading those articles and books and started thinking I was doing things "wrong".

As it turns out, there really isn't any "wrong" way of playing D&D. The "right" way is whatever works for your group, allowing everyone to have fun. The "wrong" way is trying to change the whole group to a different style. Then, no one has fun.

Of course, I couldn't really reconcile that in my head, and it led to burnout. But, by letting others run, it resolved two issues. 1) It allowed me to have the same fun as the group - roll the dice, slay the bad guy, take his loot and get off a snarky one-liner. 2) It showed the other guys just how much work can go into running a game.

Getting others to run may not work in your group, but having the alternative of board and card games to run still takes the onus off of you, allowing you to have fun. Also try a tournament adventure - something that should be completed in 4-6 hours. The players roll up characters just for that one session (or use their existing ones, but retain nothing from the adventure). I've even set up 1 shot Gladiator sessions for the guys when I've gotten tired of listening to the "my character is more uber-leet than your character!" crap. Those are easy - just adjudicate the rules and let them deal with the rest! Winner gets the glory of having created the uber-leet character this time around. But next year.....

Ultimately, though, if you are having fun with the group, and they're having fun with you running, then all I can say is stop reading the books on "How to be a Better GM!" and accept the fact that for your group, you're the best GM there is.

 

[Connorsrpg]

I am feeling the same with my group currently. Not RP vs H&S, but bummed b/c they don't get anywhere near invested in the game as I would like.

Anyhow, I too have finally broken away from playing D&D (all editions) exclusively and entered the great realms of Savage Worlds. Love it and love the settings etc.

However, this hasn't helped the problem. The problem is with the players' lives. They are that way b/c of external factors. Sounds like your players simply prefer a different style to you.

I don't think you need to switch systems at all. And who said 4E can't be RP based. YOU DM it. You choose the rewards. Assign each piece of info gained or each NPC interacted with successfully a level and give XP as if they had defeated a monster of that level. Even better assign XP for each piece of info, meaning an extended conversation gains several XP points. Of course players aren't going to get involved if they don't see a material reward. Hell, make the RP a quest, or, just give them XP for good roleplaying. Simple really.

Then surprise them with an unexpected fight in the middle where they have to save who they are talking to. Maybe then they will want to try and save them to hear the rest of what they had to say.

Ultimately, try and find a medium. You want to have fun, the players want to have fun and it sounds like your choices to find new players is very limited (like mine, I live in rural Victoria, Australia).

RE good GM/DM books. I have read a LOT of these lately. Been on a real kick to improve my game BASED ON MY PLAYERS wants. Something I hadn't really considered despite being a (decent) DM for 20+ years. (Have had discussion on this on our own website).

I recently read the Pathfinder Gamesmastery Guide and rate it a B. It was very good, but often wordy, hard to locate info in masssive paragraphs, and I had pretty much heard all info before. (Not a fault of the book - just that it has come after so many). (Best part for me was the idea of community modifiers...but not here. Sorry).

My favourites include: 3.5 DnD DMG2. Awesome advice in here. I am sure Robin Laws had a lot to do with that and I must read his God of Gamesmastering book.

I know a lot of people think 4E is too 'gamey', but the DMG1 is not. Actually read it. James Wyatt has it chock-full of wonderful advice and it is so well set out and easy to find. 4E DMG2 has some nuggets too.

But there are several awesome free on line sites too. Do you receive (orvisit the site of) Roleplaying Tips Blog | Roleplaying Tips. And what about Christopher Perkins' 'The Dungeonmaster Experience' articles on the dnd site (no need for a subscription). Reminds me a lot of Ray Winnigher's old Dungeoncraft articles that always come up when talking about best DM advice.

Anyway, have batted on a bit, but hopefully that is of some help.

EDIT: Just noticed that Chris Perkins' articles are available as a compilation. A must have