The DM doesn't like it when we go Out of Character...

[Orius]

Just so you guys know. My DM borders on Killer DM territory. He doesn't believe in holding back anything when creating his combat encounters. At the same time he is also very much into character development. It's a bit of an odd combination.

There have been several times that the party has been nearly TPKed or TPKed because the DM doesn't scale things back at all for the newbies.

One other oddity of my DM... he encourages newbies to develop their characters and feats without combat in mind. In other words he encourages characters to take less than combat optimal feats. However, whenever we encounter the BBEG or his henchmen, they are always combat optimized. Rarely do we see an NPC bad guy that isn't built to kill.

Anyway, here are the things the 8th level group has faced so far...
A CR13 incorporeal, level draining, undead bad guy that came upon us in our sleep... and the DM ruled that two characters, a greenbond and a witch (we're playing Arcana Unearthed) could not be awakened by the combat because they both rolled "1" on their listen checks. If it weren't for the AU Hero Point mechanic, we would have all been dead pretty quickly... but now we're all out of Hero Points so that's not a viable tactic anymore.

What do we face next in our investigation of our former party's death? A CR12 dragon that making lunch meat out of us, until the greenbond got lucky with a Bind with Plants spell. The Dragon only need to roll a 4 or higher to make his save, lucky for us he rolled a 2. Had the dragon made that save, we would have all died.

Borders on killer DM territory? I'd say he's got prime real estate in killer DM territory!

Basically, from what you're saying, is he's encouraging newbies to take stuff like Skill Focus (Craft: Basketweaving), and steers them away from the feat paths that are combat related. The end result is a PC that is't focused, feat wise. That might be alright, given the right campaign, but meanwhile, he's doing stuff like slapping together foes that are 4 CRs above the party level, and giving them stuff like Weapon Focus (longbow), Weapon Specialization (longbow), Improved Critical (longbow), Point Blank Shot, and related feats all at the same time. Then when the experienced players try to get the party to act in concert to take on these monstrosities, he slaps it down.

The only way I can suggest handling this is to have the experienced players work out some tactics and character development with the newbies outside of the actual game itself. He can't penalize you there. And if he throws a power trip over it, get a new DM.

 

[Pagan priest]

Well... first, a question. Do the newbies want help? If so, tell the DM to put a sock in it and give them the help they want... not more, not less. This includes rules and tactics. Now I know there's a lot of folks who've already posted saying that the players have to make their own mistakes, and that is true, to some extent. Depending on the background of these players, they might not have a firm grasp on things like tactics. I came into D&D lo these many years ago from tactical board games like Panzer Blitz. Many gamers do not have anything at all like that in their backgrounds.

Do not run their characters for them, only give them advice. Best if you can gice them a couple of options and let them decide specifics for themselves.

As far as that whole "DM's word is law" nonsense, I have been playing far too long, seen to many DM's with no clue about the rules, too many a--hole DM's to do anything but laugh at anyone who would even try to spout that tripe near me. D&D is a consentual interplay between DM and players. The DM gets to create the setting and arbitrate the rules.

 

[Liminal Syzygy]

In the heat of combat I think it's inappropriate for players to "telepathically" act in concert (whether or not their character's lives are at stake).

I am pretty strict about this as well. Another problem with the OOC advice welcome at any time rule is that many times the game breaks down into a one or two minute discussion on what each player should do with their turn.

But things have been changing lately--I decided to let them talk out of turn if they have Rary's Telepathic Bond up, and it has become quite a popular spell as a result--with the added benefit that the enemies who are scrying them can't hear what they are saying to one another when they are planning an attack.

 

[Strahd]

I'm playing in a short campaign with a couple of gaming newbies (less than 1 year of experience). Whenever combat rolls (no pun intended) around the gaming vets figure out what they want to do tactically, and they do it.

Not so the newbies... Since they don't know the mechanics all that well, they often make rookie mistakes. That wouldn't be that big a deal if we were playing low level characters. However, for the current mini-game we are all 8th level, with the exception of one character that is 12th.

So the vets give a little OOC advice about what a good tactical maneuver might be. The DM is usually quick to say that the newbies should decide for themselves and that we're speaking out of turn. I have no problem following the DMs rules, but it gets a bit irksome when my character's hide is on the line.

My argument against the DM is that the character is 8th level. While it might be possible for the character to reach 8th level without much knowledge of his/her spell list... or without a full understanding of how each feat works... I highly doubt it. All the veterans are providing is that extra bit of knowledge that any 8th level character would know like the back of his/her hand.

I guess my question is... why should the newbies, and the rest of the party for that matter, be penalized because the newbies don't have a firm grasp of what may or may not be a good tactical move?

--sam

I think your DM needs to remember that the game is supossed to be fun and not punishment. I usually let the characters give a little advice to new players, in character. I use the rule that if you character is not there or is KO/dead then the player can not give advice. If all the experianced players start to bash on the newbies(a term i think is extremely rude and uncalled for) then how do we expect new players to give a damn aboot the game? IMO the best way to deal with it in combat situations is one suggestion per turn, that way it does not slow down combat too much. In any other situation the characters can give as much advice as they want, so long as they realise that it is their fault they only covered one room in 3 hours .