The dual-wielding swordmage?

[Obryn]

So, let's say I want a swordmage with a focus on dealing damage. Yeah, I know, it's a bit outside their shtick, and will end up sub-optimal in quite a few ways, but this is mostly just a thought experiment anyway.

I'll go Eladrin, because I need both Dexterity and Intelligence. This will leave points free for other goodies. I'll stop the build at 8th for now.

I don't want to do a full build here, but check me on this for a second...

For grins, at 1st and 2nd levels, I pick up Eladrin Soldier and Spiked Shield. The spiked shield, being both a light blade and defensive, is pretty awesome for this build - I lose only 1 point of AC, after everything's said and done, and potentially get a lot more damage in. Main weapon is a longsword, which should be fine considering how uncommon multiple-[w] attacks are for swordmages.

At 4th, I snag Dual Implement Mastery. By 8th level (where I'll quit this experiment) I'm getting an extra +2 to damage with all my Arcane powers - both the +2 spiked shield and +2 longsword count.

I can pick up Two-Weapon Fighting at 6th, for another +1 to damage with my "main weapon." I don't really see any reason this wouldn't work on implement attacks, much like how weapon focus works.

I'll just snag two-weapon defense at 8th so I haven't, in the end, lost any AC whatsoever.

Near as I can tell, assuming I have two +2 weapons, I should get...

+5 (Int) +2 (sword) +2 (shield) +1 (two-weapon) +2 (soldier) = +12 damage on most of my attacks.

Unless I'm missing something? Character Builder seems to disagree.

And yes, I know that other Arcane classes can get +12 to damage with their eyes closed. But for a swordmage? This doesn't seem bad.

-O

 

[Starfox]

Learning to use a spiked shield takes 2 feats - Shield Prof and Weapon Proficiency. Pretty expensive.

I make the same call as you do about two weapon fighting, but I've not checked it in the book.

I don't think Dual Implement would apply to weapon attacks, and those are normally among the better Swordmage powers. But then again, that means you'll be taking the path less traveled and take implement powers, which is interesting in itself.

 

[Dan'L]

So, let's say I want a swordmage
...
For grins, at 1st and 2nd levels, I pick up Eladrin Soldier and Spiked Shield. The spiked shield, being both a light blade and defensive, is pretty awesome for this build - I lose only 1 point of AC, after everything's said and done, and potentially get a lot more damage in. Main weapon is a longsword, which should be fine considering how uncommon multiple-[w] attacks are for swordmages.

I'm fairly certain that to gain both offensive and defensive benefits of a spiked shield, with RAW you'll need to have Light Shield Proficiency as well as Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Shield.

-Dan'L

 

[Obryn]

Learning to use a spiked shield takes 2 feats - Shield Prof and Weapon Proficiency. Pretty expensive.

I'm fairly certain that to gain both offensive and defensive benefits of a spiked shield, with RAW you'll need to have Light Shield Proficiency as well as Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Shield.

-Dan'L

OK, that works. In that case, swap that out for a Parrying Dagger. Less damage, but since I'm not really attacking with it, it's irrelevant. Same deal - still a +1 to AC until I get TWD, at which point it's effectively +2. It's still a light blade, so it's still an Implement, and by the time I take TWD I'm not down any points of AC. I'm just short the Reflex boost.

I make the same call as you do about two weapon fighting, but I've not checked it in the book.

Well, just like with Weapon Focus, it doesn't specify how you're attacking. At least, as far as I read.

I don't think Dual Implement would apply to weapon attacks, and those are normally among the better Swordmage powers. But then again, that means you'll be taking the path less traveled and take implement powers, which is interesting in itself.

I'm actually 99% certain it would, by reading the feat. The feat specifies "Arcane Attack powers" rather than "Implement powers." So, I think this part of it is on firmer footing than Two-Weapon Fighting.

-O

 

[Dan'L]

OK, that works. In that case, swap that out for a Parrying Dagger. Less damage, but since I'm not really attacking with it, it's irrelevant. Same deal - still a +1 to AC until I get TWD, at which point it's effectively +2. It's still a light blade, so it's still an Implement, and by the time I take TWD I'm not down any points of AC. I'm just short the Reflex boost.

Well, if you're not attacking with it anyway, technically you could ignore Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Shield, since you can wield a weapon without proficiency, you just don't get the proficiency bonus. BUT... you'll probably be happier with Parrying Dagger anyway; TWD provides a typed "shield" bonus, and thus wouldn't stack with the AC & Ref bonus provided by the spiked shield, but will stack with the untyped AC bonus from the Defensive quality of the parrying dagger.

-Dan'L

 

[Piratecat]

There may be a CB bug right now:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-4th-edition-rules/256018-change-tempests-doubleswords.html

 

[Mithreinmaethor]

Go with a Genasi and go with a Double Weapon so you are only losing 1 AC overall.

 

[Obryn]

Go with a Genasi and go with a Double Weapon so you are only losing 1 AC overall.

I don't know that a double sword would count as two implements for the Double Implement feat.

-O

 

[Mort_Q]

Go with a Genasi and go with a Double Weapon so you are only losing 1 AC overall.

Not all Double Weapons have the Defensive keyword.

Well, OK, only the Spiked Chain (Multiclass Feat) doesn't, but there may be more coming.

 

[Herschel]

I would think that rather than going your route it would be better to go with a Hybrid Character. A Swordmage/Rogue would seem to give you what you are looking for more easily, Your FORT & WILL will likely suffer as a result but otherwise it should get you where you want to go. Or maybe try to build a Tempest Fighter/Swordmage hybrid or a Swordmage/Ranger.