The End of Good ol' d+d

[R.X.DIEM]

sfgiants

I'm sorry to hear about your frustration with 3e. I am familiar with 1e but not with 2e and I love 3e. And I'm not going to debate the fine points of modifying XP or problems with leveling. But I will say that if your not happy with what you are doing, don't do it. All debate aside. If you can't enjoy it it ain't worth doing. Thats my 2 cents

 

[sfgiants]

The point has been missed again (mind you, I stopped reading after 2 pages ) Anyways, I am NOT complaining about prep time, or level of detail in the game, or how difficult the game is. I love 3e and it probably is easier to run, 'cause there is an answer to everything. My problem is the mindset that 3e players develop (at least the ones I encounter do). The mindest of "one way to play the game" and that balance is part of the rules. Balance has and always been dictated by the dm. And for the record, I have dm'd for over 10 years and dm'd groups up to 10 players large. I am not inexperienced and new. I am just commenting on something I have observed after playing 3e for almost two years now.

 

[sfgiants]

WSMITH, you have hit my point right on. Someone else at least sees my point. Thanks.

 

[Chimera]

SFG;

Selfish players have always been like that. Even in 1e. Its just that, back then, it was over whether it was fair for Ann to have only a +1 Longsword while Ben had a +3 Battleaxe. Balance as we now discuss it wasn't the issue. We had other issues.

Selfish Players always whine when they don't win the die roll, or get their favorite flaming vorpal dancing dohickey. Of course they question how a simple peasant can overcome their +10 bluff. They're invincible! They're ALWAYS supposed to win or succeed! How dare YOU allow a simple peasant to thwart their plans! I bet you did it on purpose!

Sad to say, there comes a point where you gotta tell them to shut up or go home. Even if they are "friends".

As stated above, if they really are your friend, they will remain your friend. (I've learned from experience on this - they weren't my friends, I guess. But I'm much happier now as a gamer and have other friends.)

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

My problem is the mindset that 3e players develop (at least the ones I encounter do). The mindest of "one way to play the game" and that balance is part of the rules. Balance has and always been dictated by the dm. And for the record, I have dm'd for over 10 years and dm'd groups up to 10 players large. I am not inexperienced and new. I am just commenting on something I have observed after playing 3e for almost two years now.

I guess I can see a kernel of truth to the "one true way" problem.

So now you have arguments with players with the "one true way of balanced rules" attitude. Back then you had arguments with players with the "anything I can get away with because the rules are gibberish in the first place and I know the DM is just guessing" attitude.

Is it really that different? I suspect it annoys some people. But it is a gift from heaven for others.

 

[LostSoul]

I think 3e is a lot easier to run because it's got a consistent mechanic: the d20 system. Roll d20 + mods vs. DC.

It's easy to wing anything with that.

 

[the Jester]

"one way to play" attitude

The point has been missed again (mind you, I stopped reading after 2 pages ) Anyways, I am NOT complaining about prep time, or level of detail in the game, or how difficult the game is. I love 3e and it probably is easier to run, 'cause there is an answer to everything. My problem is the mindset that 3e players develop (at least the ones I encounter do). The mindest of "one way to play the game" and that balance is part of the rules. Balance has and always been dictated by the dm. And for the record, I have dm'd for over 10 years and dm'd groups up to 10 players large. I am not inexperienced and new. I am just commenting on something I have observed after playing 3e for almost two years now.

Hmm... I play in 3 campaigns and dm one right now; all our groups follow the rules without any really major changes although all the games are very different (and one just ended, actually). I do see your point to a certain extent but I also think that if you're up front about balance changing things you're doing at the beginning of the campaign then nobody really can complain if they choose to play in your game. Of course, it is possible that the people you play with just don't want to play the same flavor of game as you; in that case you might consider rethinking things (either whatever you want to change or your gaming group).

Is there something specific you wanted to do to the rules or something?

 

[sfgiants]

It isn't a problem with the rules, but the mindset 3e players are developing. There is nothing I have found that can change this, so I have become a player instead. Still love the game though

 

[the Jester]

Well, maybe you should try running a campaign where you drastically change things: no item creation feats, low treasure, higher CRs for creatures with special abilities. Ur something. Something to shake them out of their conceptions.

 

[Kichwas]

It isn't a problem with the rules, but the mindset 3e players are developing. There is nothing I have found that can change this, so I have become a player instead. Still love the game though

*shrug*

I just don't see it.

Or don't see the problem.

What's so bad about players wanting a balanced game? Or consistant and thus easy to remember rules?

What's so hard about DMing a game where you don't have to rack you're brains to figure out if what you're doing is a fair challenge because a lot of that is built in for you?

What's so hard about DMing a game where you don't have to keep looking up rules and tables becuase it all works on the same core mechanic?

I'm looking for the problem, but I'm just not seeing it.