The End of Good ol' d+d

[Chimera]

Just keep repeating;

IT IS JUST A GAME

If someone is upset that you are "winging it" and don't have the entire freaking stat block written down for Homer the Hobo, then they are taking things too seriously and need to take their medicine.

If someone gets upset that Bob the Guard had a +2 bab last time and has a +3 this time, it's time for them to slack off the caffeine.

If someone thinks it "breaks the illusion" if you can't think of a name for a minor character at that moment, then they need some serious professional help.

I have over 400 NAMED NPCs IMC. So what. There are hundreds of thousands of people in the region. I do not care to list and name them all. If that means Joe the Player gets upset because I ponder for a few seconds before making up a name for the obscure bartender he insists on talking to, then that is HIS PROBLEM, not mine. And if I say " I don't know, it doesn't matter what his name is", then TOO FREAKING BAD. It doesn't mean that I am a bad DM. It means that I am not concerned with naming every freaking peasant that my over-active player wants to interact with. That isn't what my game is all about.

Being creative along the way, or "winging it" is a requirement as a DM. As others have said, if that ruins the game for some players, then that is their problem, not yours. They probably shouldn't be playing an open style game like D&D.

 

[WSmith]

Whe I first started reading the thread, I felt the same as SFGiants. After reading some of the replies, I think I know what my problem is, being twofold.

1. The players, ALL of them (somewhere around 15-20), I have met in Real Life (not the ones I used to game with who would be great players had we not been split up to the 4 corners of the globe ) are some kind of new breed of number crunching, rules lawyering, power hungry fools. They act like D&D is a religion. If I give an NPC a +3 to appraise a gem and it beats the opposed bluff or whatever, they fly off the stinking handle. "What kind of stats does this petty jewel merchant have? He can't beat my Bluff skill!" they say. Life is too short to deal with these kinds of morans. So, I pass rather than play.

2. Because of #1, I am just burned out on DMing. I need to play a character for a while, if I can find a group I will fit in with that know D&D is a FUN GAME and not a religion.

 

[Kichwas]

Seems unduly complicated - I say, just make it up!

I do a lot of ad libbing of interaction but if I needed mechanics for an NPC something like I presented would be my guide.

I like consistancy and I want things non arbitrary.
I also prefer NPCs to gain in skill over time and for a person who's been in their trade for many years to actually get good at it. So I put together a level by age system as a rough guideline from which I can make variations as the situation warrents.

 

[jasper]

...

1. The players,...are some kind of new breed of number crunching, rules lawyering, power hungry fools. They act like D&D is a religion. ...

GEE they act like most of my players when the ages of gamers were below 24 years old.

gee they act like some of my current players who are under 24.

Yes D&D can be religion, so can stamp collection, foot ball (would you paint yourself smurf color in zero degree weather), etc

Some people can DM off the cuff some can't. But when players TELL me a npc should get only +x. I tell suck it up.

But then I approaching 40 and can walk away and do my other hobbies to get my creative fix, coin making, mail making, brewing, Etc.

Now it is a little bit longer to create a BBEG with out the computer to do all the adjustments. But hey a mage is no longer a mage. a 9th thief is not the same as everyother 9th thief.

People with problem personalities will always play characters with problem personlities.
Save your self headaches. Kick your best friend from the table. If he never comes back over to be friends. GUESS WHAT he is not your best friend.


Role play
Roll play
Munchikin
As long as everyone is having fun.

 

[IceBear]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I didn't have Internet access for most of the time that I played the older editions, and thus I didn't know that rule X was "broken" or "unbalanced" and thus I naturally have heard this referred to 3E more than any other edition. I also think that participating in rules forums like this might actually be jading us somewhat into thinking that 3E is broken or unbalanced. If someone comes here and provides an example of how broken something is, we all go "Oh my...that's just wrong". Meanwhile, in our own games this situation might NEVER come up. However, the damage is done - we have the perception that something is broken.

Anyway, I take the middle ground. I do prepare a lot. I do make up "standard" NPCs (guards, blacksmiths, etc) when I have the time. In general I don't find this any more time consuming than I did in the past. I often wing stuff too - you just need to have a good enough grasp of the rules to know what's reasonable.

Anyway, I don't see 3E as being any harder to DM than 2E - somethings do take a little more work, but then somethings are easier to wing. If the PCs want to do something a little off the wall, just assign a DC to it to see if it succeeds. No need to go looking up rules and stuff.

IceBear

 

[kenjib]

I think it was Sean Reynolds that recently suggested a system for levelling NPC's based on age on his website, so it seems that Arcady is in good company. I also think it's a good idea. Older people should have more experience, knowledge, and skill on average.

 

[WSmith]

Yes D&D can be religion, so can stamp collection, foot ball (would you paint yourself smurf color in zero degree weather), etc

HEHE! That is good for another thread, for the guys I know who think D&D is childish, but find it entertaining to spend hundreds of dollars in FANATSY football, and play like they are the real coaches. It seems only I see the irony, that in both games, the players are playing a role.

Some people can DM off the cuff some can't. But when players TELL me a npc should get only +x. I tell suck it up.

But then I approaching 40 and can walk away and do my other hobbies to get my creative fix, coin making, mail making, brewing, Etc.

That is what I find sad. I used to be so good at improv D&D. Now, I duuuno. Maybe it is just the burn out. I used to be able to handle the troublesome players like described, the "how does the city guard have a +9 BAB?" types.

Save your self headaches. Kick your best friend from the table. If he never comes back over to be friends. GUESS WHAT he is not your best friend.

Thats half the trouble. Most of my true and playing "friends" are all at least 400 ,miles away. I had no problem kicking these "gamers" from the table.

 

[Desdichado]

Yes, knejib, but why would older people be better at attacking things, or have more hit points? If anything, younger folks would be better at those. In general.

 

[IceBear]

That's the problem with using levels in general.

IceBear

 

[mmadsen]

That's the problem with using levels in general.

That's most definitely not a problem with using levels in general; it's a problem with D&D treating all classes as combatant/adventurer classes -- even the noncombatant NPC classes.