The Essentials Thief: Escaping from Light Blade Hell

[Felon]

I've been digging the Essentials versions of the various classes. I'm not sure if they hit the mark from a game balance point of view (especially the slayer), but the idea that a weapon attack is one payload that can encapsulate in different delivery systems really hits the mark. Moreover, a class's role outside of attacking things has been given far deeoer enphasis than the niche of utility powers (where they would often wind up neglected in favor of attack buffs).

This really shows with the thief. Would like to play one--but they're trapped in a hell of constricting, shoehorning weapon options. You don't even get the option to be the classic acrobat-thief with a staff.

I'm aware of the versatile duelist feat, which allows a rogue to use heavy blades, but like many feats it's worded with the (previously understandable) assumption that attacks are entertwined with powers ("... If a rogue power requires you to wield a light blade, you can use that power with a one-handed heavy blade and can also deal your Sneak Attack damage...."). I suspect this may be the case with many other feats as well.

So, is there any way out from under this?

EDIT--Sorry, wrong forum. Hopefully it will be moved to 4e discussion.

 

[Tuft]

Isn't the 4E forum a better place for your question?

 

[amerigoV]

Isn't the 4E forum a better place for your question?

Agreed. We are too busy discussing what 5E will bring.

 

[Pickles JG]

Why do you want to use a different weapon?

I am not sure there are any any significant weapons dependent abilities, to get that mean you could not just reskin your eg rapier as whatever you want it to be in name.

As a DM I would allow any d8 weapon you bought proficency in to be used as a light blade, as you just get different riders on the expertise feat. Reach with a staff might be good but you lose the +1 damage per tier from light blades. You can't flank with reach anyway.

Using a weapon with a bigger damage die would seem to be a powerup but even then probably not game breaking. Thieves' with greataxes are a bit jarring though.

 

[Klaus]

I've been digging the Essentials versions of the various classes. I'm not sure if they hit the mark from a game balance point of view (especially the slayer), but the idea that a weapon attack is one payload that can encapsulate in different delivery systems really hits the mark. Moreover, a class's role outside of attacking things has been given far deeoer enphasis than the niche of utility powers (where they would often wind up neglected in favor of attack buffs).

This really shows with the thief. Would like to play one--but they're trapped in a hell of constricting, shoehorning weapon options. You don't even get the option to be the classic acrobat-thief with a staff.

I'm aware of the versatile duelist feat, which allows a rogue to use heavy blades, but like many feats it's worded with the (previously understandable) assumption that attacks are entertwined with powers ("... If a rogue power requires you to wield a light blade, you can use that power with a one-handed heavy blade and can also deal your Sneak Attack damage...."). I suspect this may be the case with many other feats as well.

So, is there any way out from under this?

EDIT--Sorry, wrong forum. Hopefully it will be moved to 4e discussion.

You can use a staff. When Essentials came out, one of the first articles Dragon ran was all bout the staff, with options for the Knight, Slayer, Thief, Cleric and Mage.

So you take the Sneaky Staff feat and are good to go.

 

[mikeloop86]

Something that just occurred to me, is if you want to be an acrobatic type character who wields a staff and steals, you might actually want to go the route of re-fluffing the Monk from PHB3. Has access to Stealth, Thievery, Acrobatics, and Athletics are trained skills for them, and like the rogue they're a dex-focused class. Their at-will disciplines all have move actions that provide similar benefits to the Essential Thief's 1st Level Rogue Tricks, and the Monk can use Staffs as weapons/implements.

Might be worth looking into.

 

[Mapache]

Rapiers are a +3/1d8 Military Light Blade, and Light Blade Expertise is one of the best of the new Expertise Feats. They may not match up with the flavor experience you're looking for, but mechanically it's pretty far from hell.

 

[Felon]

You can use a staff. When Essentials came out, one of the first articles Dragon ran was all bout the staff, with options for the Knight, Slayer, Thief, Cleric and Mage.

So you take the Sneaky Staff feat and are good to go.

Did they now? That's cool. Any other weapons get that treatment.

Looks like right now I'll wind up reskinning a kukri into a mini-falchion. But I'm not gonna be some dandy with a rapier.

 

[Felon]

Rapiers are a +3/1d8 Military Light Blade, and Light Blade Expertise is one of the best of the new Expertise Feats. They may not match up with the flavor experience you're looking for, but mechanically it's pretty far from hell.

Having a needlessly constrained set cookie-cutter options is pretty onerous to me. At one time in a more naive world, the sneak attack damage bonus might have seemed excessive, but I look at what a craghammer can do in the hands of a fighter (slayer or not), it suddenly ain't such a big whoop.

My preference would have been to incentivize the use of the traditional rogue "sneaky" weapons through bonuses when wielding them. thief offers such bonuses, making the weapon hamstring seem rather hard-coding seem rather unnecessary.

 

[twilsemail]

Are you sure that this is a fluff issue? The theif is a little guy what stabs things in the right place with a knife (or knife-like weapon). That's his schtick. It pretty much always has been.

If you're looking to deal damage with a heavy blade, head towards the striker. Hell, you could even take Melee Training (Dex) and Stealth training and call it a day. Make him a Guerilla Warfare specialist or something.

I think you're more looking for "Backstab with a Heavy Blade" than "Sneaky guy with a big sword." But that's my $.02 and it's not really worth more than that.

Edit: to add something worthwhile to the topic at hand. I can't think of anything outside of "Sneaky Staff" that's all that useful for a Thief looking to expand his portfolio outside of the Weapon Proficiency feat for some of the Light Blades he's not already proficient with.