The fail a save on a 1 item is hurt controversy!

[JLXC]

I edited my post. I'm willing to listen here. I SERIOUSLY want to know if DM's out there are allowing Equipment to survive the death of the owner by spells and abilities that cause massive damage or disintegration. Such as:

Ancient Dragon breathes fire for 300 damage which melts stone and everything inside.

Disintegrate the spell... or heck what about a Cone of Disintegration like some monsters have?

I am really shocked. I DID absolutely say I could be wrong right from the start in the first few lines, so all the cries about my "You are full of it." can just die. Come on folks... Is EN boards more worried about Etiquette than anything else or what?

 

[kreynolds]

So, in your spell if the platemail rolls a nat 1 on the saving throw does the person inside take damage?

Actually, no. My spell only affects inorganic matter, even a false leg. It was specifically designed to end a fight as quickly as possible, and destroy your foe's ego as well. The spell is called Wild Embarrasment, if that tells you anything.

 

[Crothian]

It depends on the situation. If a PC dies in a vat of acid, I imaghine all their equipment will get destroyed unless it gets saved rather fast. If they are blaseted with Dragon Fire, then the scrolls and potions and cloth items would be completely ruined, but the shield of fire restiance might survive. I don't have any hard and fasdt rules for, I just use what feels right at that time.

 

[IceBear]

Well, a piss poor attitude isn't one that people like responding too. If you have a serious rule question then ask seriously.

As for your problem, I would tend to use a judgement call if it mattered. The D&D game is about heroic fanatsy. It's just as nuts that a dragon did 300 points of damage to a 500hp fighter and didn't melt his armor (while all the rock around him melted) as it is that he did 300hp to a 290hp fighter and didn't melt the armor. I could rationalize a way for the armor to survive both. So, if in doubt I'd use the rules.

If the guy had 10hp, then I'd probably rule that nothing remained (unless there was something important that the players needed, so I might roll for survival then).

IceBear

 

[Berk]

I edited my post. I'm willing to listen here. I SERIOUSLY want to know if DM's out there are allowing Equipment to survive the death of the owner by spells and abilities that cause massive damage or disintegration. Such as:

Ancient Dragon breathes fire for 300 damage which melts stone and everything inside.

Disintegrate the spell... or heck what about a Cone of Disintegration like some monsters have?

I am really shocked. I DID absolutely say I could be wrong right from the start in the first few lines, so all the cries about my "You are full of it." can just die. Come on folks... Is EN boards more worried about Etiquette than anything else or what?

For magic items? Sure they are still around. Now mundane items, they are toast, or dust, or whatever. Also if another attack comes across the items they need to make their saves then and might be as toast as the mundane items.

 

[JLXC]

Hey I am not saying magic items and such don't get a save... they should.

I just have to be totally shocked at the idea that Disintegrate only effects the person and not their gear. I never even imagined playing the game that way and I am amazed is all. The magic items would get a save and all, so SOME might survive.

The idea of a 10d6 Fireball ripping through an area, killing everything, but leaving all the equipment unharmed is new to me in the extreme.

I can justify the whole "Heroic Aura" or some such for equipment on a person who lives through it. I just never thought of after the person is DEAD... that their stuff would be unscathed. If we apply this as it seems to be... then we do end up with Bahamut using a Cone of Disintegration on peasants and their clothes surviving... and then plummeting into the crater left when everything else went away.

Where do you draw the line?

For example the PC's cast Blade Barrier 2' off the ground sideways to cut the legs off their foes. The damage was enough to do so, but everything above 2' I rolled damage for as it fell into the blades as the baddies died. Some magical items were tough enough to survive but most perished. I never imagined saying "You cast the spell and the baddies are cut to bits... all except their equipment of course." Never. I am still in shock here.

 

[IceBear]

Come on folks... Is EN boards more worried about Etiquette than anything else or what?

Not the EN boards but the world in general. If you treat people in real life with the same crummy attitude, it's no wonder the world isn't such a nice place anymore.

Remember the Golden Rule and you might find the world a friendlier place. Sorry for the semi-rant, but seriously, you'll do better on these forums with a positive attitude than a negative one.

IceBear

 

[the Jester]

I edited my post. I'm willing to listen here. I SERIOUSLY want to know if DM's out there are allowing Equipment to survive the death of the owner by spells and abilities that cause massive damage or disintegration. Such as:

Ancient Dragon breathes fire for 300 damage which melts stone and everything inside.

Disintegrate the spell... or heck what about a Cone of Disintegration like some monsters have?

After some thought, the way I'd run this would be:
Meteor Swarm or other big-damage effect: doesn't damage magic items except on a 1 on the save unless it does OVERWHELMINGLY more damage than the victim had hp;
Disintigrate affects ONE creature OR object, so in this case the victim's equipment is fine;
A cone of disintigration would affect all the items in it (all the magic items must save) if the victim dies; if she rolls a 1 on her save but still somehow survives- not sure how this could happen- only one item would have to save.

 

[IceBear]

Hey I am not saying magic items and such don't get a save... they should.

I just have to be totally shocked at the idea that Disintegrate only effects the person and not their gear. I never even imagined playing the game that way and I am amazed is all. The magic items would get a save and all, so SOME might survive.

The idea of a 10d6 Fireball ripping through an area, killing everything, but leaving all the equipment unharmed is new to me in the extreme.

I can justify the whole "Heroic Aura" or some such for equipment on a person who lives through it. I just never thought of after the person is DEAD... that their stuff would be unscathed. If we apply this as it seems to be... then we do end up with Bahamut using a Cone of Disintegration on peasants and their clothes surviving... and then plummeting into the crater left when everything else went away.

Where do you draw the line?

For example the PC's cast Blade Barrier 2' off the ground sideways to cut the legs off their foes. The damage was enough to do so, but everything above 2' I rolled damage for as it fell into the blades as the baddies died. Some magical items were tough enough to survive but most perished. I never imagined saying "You cast the spell and the baddies are cut to bits... all except their equipment of course." Never. I am still in shock here.

And I don't think it's that clear cut with most of the people here either. If it doesn't make sense to you, as the DM, then it doesn't happen. How do you know that the fighter's sword, for example, didn't fly free before he was killed in the blade barrier. Perhaps his armor was of such a powerful enchantment that maybe it was destroyed but protected the items under it? There are TONs of reasons why something COULD happen. The rules are there when you, as the DM, can't decide what should happen.

How do you know, for example, that the disintegrate ray didn't strike him in the face and disintegrate him and left all his equipment untouched?

Icebear

 

[JLXC]

Icebear. Like I said... I never played that way... not in 20+ years.. net even as a kid.

Disintegrate has always been the "Bang you're Dead" spell. In every novel I have ever read, and all the FR Novels, when someone is disintegrated they and everything on them go POOF. If you need info or a piece of something on them then disintegrate is not the way to go. Until now. I had no idea that people were using that rule to justify such things. I admit that.

Even in Game terms there have been times when the it was said "The dragon only breathes as a last resort because it wants treasure."

Why would the dragon bother in a world where only when you roll a 1 on a save can your equipment ever get damaged?

Wow.